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Photoshop Contest Forum Index - General Discussion - Seat and Source Shadows - Reply to topic

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vokaris
Site Moderator

Post Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:07 pm   Reply with quote         






vokaris
Site Moderator

Post Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:12 pm   Reply with quote         


Here's a better shadow study





dumbat

Location: Sydney

Post Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:48 pm   Reply with quote         


Micose wrote:
i noticed that people have problem with too blurry shadows or not....

the blurriness of the shadow is affected by the size of the light source, the intensity of it compared to the ambient light, and the distance of that part of the shadow from the shadow-casting object

in this detail from my 'foyer' chop...

...you can see the shadow from the window frame is hard edged near the window frame, then progressively gets softer further away from the frame. usually i do this by duplicating the shadow layer, blurring the duplicate, then using a layer mask with a gradient to fade one of these layers out and the other one in (using an inverted layer mask). hope that made sense Laughing

it can be tricky using this method to ensure the shadow casts the same intensity of shadow (huh?) over the length of the shadow. in this example above, that wasn't a problem, cos increased ambient light by the window meant i could get away with a non-uniform shadow




Marx-Man

Location: The United Kingdom!

Post Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:37 pm   Reply with quote         


Regarding compositional works...

3 point lighting, side lighting, diffuse lighting, grotesque and various other forms of compositional lighting when regarding cast shadows.

Don't forget to add shading to the object, sounds obvious but I have seen the odd chop without it.


Diffuse lighting in photogrpahy is lighting which has been put through a diffuser or bounced of a wall to create a softened effect. It doesn't cast a well defined shadow and is likly to be used to neutralise shadows as well as highlight areas in shade. Usually its the light which is refered to as the "fill". Diffuse lighting casts a shadow which is best described as a faint shadow with blurred edges

Focused lighting or a key light creates a well defined shadow this light source can be the sun or a light. Usually you would use this kind of lighting to create a constrast between light and dark. This light adds depth (depending on its location to the camera) If the light is directly frontal it will remove depth (like a camera flash).

Backlighting, this kind of lighting is used to cast the subject as a silhouette. A lot of artists use backlight scenes (for example a moon) and have all the subjects frontally light by the moons hue. Also the backlight produces a 3D subject when used in 3 point lighting.
Mistake!!! Frontally lighting a backlight scene. This shamfully common mistake often is over looked but you can really tell who the pros are when the scene is light convincingly.


As you can see the moon is in the background but the subject is light quite clearly from multiple points.

1: from above as indicated by his chin.
2: From the back as indicated by the big moon.
3: From the Left at the front as indicated by the scythe and dantes trousers
4: From the Left again but at a different angle as there is no shadow on the scythe
5: From the right as the shadow from his jacket indicates

Nice frame shame the lighting comes from everywhere, contradicting itself.

Ya get the idea.




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JClark8220

Location: Mojave Desert

Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:48 am   Reply with quote         


Great tips on shadowing. Thanks.




TofuTheGreat

Location: Back where I belong.

Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:38 am   Reply with quote         


TutorMe wrote:
If you have something with a shadow already there, you can just do the opposite to find where the source is. Very Happy

vokaris wrote:
Here's a better shadow study



Okayyy..... Someone wanna put the source lines on THIS photo so we can see where the light source would be? This would help Dew'd and moi at least (and probably several others). I'm guessing that the highlites on the rim of the glass might be a clue?




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bigbuck

Location: Australia

Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:09 am   Reply with quote         


Sunlight I would guess....front left

Parallel rays, Parallel ground angle







ReinMan

Location: Kingston, ONTARIO, CAN

Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:51 am   Reply with quote         


Micose wrote:

parallel light: put a line of soldiers in the sun of the desert...all the shadows are parallele, cuz the sun is very far and very big right ?

electric light/the source is tiny and quite close, put 3 persons in the room, in line too, u will have not parallele shadows.
i wish my english bettertho...)


That is a good way to put it, regarding SIZE of MAIN LIGHT SOURCE!

I didn't have an army of foxy women, but I did find THREE. I whipped these up to illustrate this point.






(please note I did NOT spend time on transparency/blur/drop-off. I just wanted to get across the idea of the ANGLES of the shadows and how the source changes that! Wink )




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ReinMan
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:11 pm   Reply with quote         


Very interesting thread bigbuck.

Shadows that are created by anything else than nature are wrong.
Just because the laws of shadow projections are too complex to be understood and recreated accurately in any context.
At the best it will imitate nature and fool the viewer into thinkin g it is accurate.

I'm not going into explanations about differences between shadows that are produced by ambiant light, sunlight, spotlight,multi source light.
Only rule that can be true to shadow is this one: imagine a paper sheet on a desk, a drawing hand and a light to illuminate the scene: shadow will always be at the opposite direction than the light, taking the drawing hand as the reference.

The ethymology of "shadow" seems interesting to me as it comes from "to shade".
Which means that a shadow is actually not a creation but a retention of light propagation due to an object's opacity.Therefore shadow is not an object in itself but a lack of illumination.One does not create a light to create a shadow in nature, one uses the exisisting light and dims it or stops its propagation by placing an object (why not oneself) between the light and the surface that receives it.
The glass of water shown above is a good example on why to think that objects dont cast shadows but stop light is good.
In other words, grass is greener when you're an insect than when you're a human, for you don't cast your shadow over it.




ReinMan

Location: Kingston, ONTARIO, CAN

Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:20 pm   Reply with quote         


ledirlo wrote:
Very interesting thread bigbuck.

Shadows that are created by anything else than nature are wrong.
Just because the laws of shadow projections are too complex to be understood and recreated accurately in any context.
At the best it will imitate nature and fool the viewer into thinkin g it is accurate.

I'm not going into explanations about differences between shadows that are produced by ambiant light, sunlight, spotlight,multi source light.
Only rule that can be true to shadow is this one: imagine a paper sheet on a desk, a drawing hand and a light to illuminate the scene: shadow will always be at the opposite direction than the light, taking the drawing hand as the reference.

The ethymology of "shadow" seems interesting to me as it comes from "to shade".
Which means that a shadow is actually not a creation but a retention of light propagation due to an object's opacity.Therefore shadow is not an object in itself but a lack of illumination.One does not create a light to create a shadow in nature, one uses the exisisting light and dims it or stops its propagation by placing an object (why not oneself) between the light and the surface that receives it.
The glass of water shown above is a good example on why to think that objects dont cast shadows but stop light is good.
In other words, grass is greener when you're an insect than when you're a human, for you don't cast your shadow over it.


Hmmmm... yes. (I think! Confused)

At the end of the day (for all us photoshoppers) it's JUST a pixel. Not a shadow. And not a light source. Just a pixel. Wink




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bigbuck

Location: Australia

Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:35 pm   Reply with quote         


A fewextra projection lines for you Tofu...





pearlie

Location: Earth, USA: swFL

Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:32 am   Reply with quote         


I'm very glad to see some explanation of shadows, as I often have a tough time getting them right.

Thanks to those who have made illustrations and such, but some are not visible, showing just a little box with red 'x' - from vokaris and Marx-Man in particular. How can I get those to show up?

Also, these illustrations have been mainly shadows on relatively FLAT surfaces. Can anyone give a SIMPLE explanation of shadows falling on bumpy or wavy surfaces? Are there any rules or does it just take experience and study....... ugh... Rolling Eyes




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YerPalAl

Location: On Deck, South by Southeast

Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:46 am   Reply with quote         


Ain't none, you just got to use your eye. If the surface raises above the plane, your angle becomes more acute and the shadow would rise in relationship to the viewer's eye. If the shadow falls across a depression the opposite effect takes place.




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ReinMan

Location: Kingston, ONTARIO, CAN

Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:53 am   Reply with quote         


And those red "X" s ?

Sorry Charlie: gone for ever.

(usually this is because the poster hosted those images on a site that only keeps files for a limited time (I think photophucket does this) and once the account runs out so do the images.)




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pearlie

Location: Earth, USA: swFL

Post Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:01 pm   Reply with quote         


O. IC.
stinkin' bastiges.

so, just like the question, 'How do you get to Carnegie Hall?' -
Answer: PRACTICE!!! Twisted Evil

Thank you, all. Wink




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