showcase has put it in the most simple way on this and Tofu's thread

*Takes soapbox again, deep breath...

Just to clear my opinion up...I dont focus on the stats...my choice yes...I do check them everynow and then as we all do...and to say votes dont matter would be a lie. It feels good to get votes. What I was trying to say was...
Yep have ya stats but dont get so caugth up in your vpp or Pscore or win%, or 200 images in a row. Enjoy what the site is about, the art.

I love it when one of the old timers posts an image and it does well, not because it was done by an old timer but because it was doen by one of them guy's that showed me how to do the stuff we do here. We learn and teach all the time here, if not by type by showing what we can do.

I only wish that this community took more time out to give praise on each others work, and to share opinoins on how to better an effect. Shit I love getting PMs from people asking for help and Pms from people telling me a better way to acheive an effect.

Yep I like the votes as well, but they are a poor second to the comments. Good or bad.
(I prefer the good cause they make me feel all warm and squishy inside.)

Showcase mentioned people using the forum, I wish half the people that have taken the time to comment in this thread took the time to give congrates to the winners in the posters congrates thread. I find that more rewarding than the votes

We need to keep comunity alive and healthy and let the stats be what the powers to be want...Im sure those that care can count all the 2nd and third and fourth places if they want. I dont think that more stats is going to make this a more competative, (shit it's always competative around here) I just dont want us to loose what we do here.

To finish my long rant I would like to quote someone close to me...

"Daddy can I look at your photchop site cause I feel sad and it always makes me feel happy"
LitteLurker number 2.

Steps down from soapbax...holds on to it tight...knows Showcase wants one for his own...this ones mine dude...

I see Show's point clearly.
Especially the part where it may make the sight better
for those who benefit from it.
I am also saying it will make the sight worse for someone, at least for me it will.
The stats already do not reflect the best of PSC and this is
just more motivation for mediocr choppers to build up a great portfolio built on
posting often, copying old ideas,and using up every vote they have in hopes
of reciprocal votes--and still, the very best chops don't even show in
on the leaders page---
You wanna put second and thirds in portfolios? GREAT
Put it on the stat page? please don't-- if there's extra room on that stat page- then
those people who made the best works for the month should be represented instead.

See Scion? Everyone wants and gets something a little different from this site. you want someones ass to kiss and others want 2nd and 3rd. I hate to break it to you, but this is NOT a site about "Art". People come here to join in in a fun, free contest of chopping skills. Some are good, some arent. thats all.

Blue_Lurker, I always thought the way to congratulate someone was to give them votes. 4 people who post in the contests read and comment in that thread. It is not adding to the community. sorry.

lastly, Marco, you are the one making this a confrontation. Bringing ideas are a good thing and I dont see any problem with this one but you must expect "discussion". This is not a can of worms, nor is it a fight. Members are just discussing your chosen topic. Trust me, this is what makes the world go round.

I agree Show, It is not adding to the community and thats my point. More people are concerened with votes thatn any thing else, and to me thats a shame. I will still enjoy and participate here cause it is so much fun but, and at times I to get involved with winnign and getting votes, I will just step back and look at what Im doing.

We are all different people here with different views and different ideas, thats what makes the world exciting..

and keep ya hands of me soapbox...ok.

you consider this a bad thing? Its what this site is for. You are supposed to compete. Wanting to win drives us to do better and work harder...it helps you artsy fartsy types to grow

Getting excited about the votes and winning is why many, whether willing to admit it or not, is why many of the contest entries are entered.

and Scion, dont go on about chopping 50 images for every one you actually post. I know you dont post them cuz they wont boost your VPP! you cant fool me. I dont believe it for a minute.

I am asking that that stats page change to something other than representing most votes -which is almost identical to most entries and replace it with something like rpp.
Than at least when anyone who visits the leader sees what actually represents the chops that we the users think are the best--PSC has changed a lot in the last year ,
Keeping the leader page based on who, posted the most is totally opposite of the daily
goal of who chopped best.
Billtv entered three contest last month--won all three -isnt even on
the leader page with a 100% win ratio against the vote leader
who has a 10% win ratio--
Really great choppers who want to see their names on the leader page are now REQUIRED to post OFTEN to get any recognition....why bother?
Sure, people are here for different reasons like you say-- you think I am ignoring that apparently--not true--these guys get unfair recognition already-
a small group getting favored already- what about the rest of us?

HA!! You almost had me, but I posted my pool pic the other day
and even said before I posted that it would be a medium vote getter but I enjoyed that chop so posted anyway
And honestly--with the way the games being played these days i could be at the top of the leader page if I had the time.

HA! I knew you were crafting some fancy, all be it off the wall, response.

One final thought (yeah right! HA!)...
Does JMH want all of us to post in two or three contests a month? no way, there would be 5 in each contest to vote on. A site like this should promote daily activity and if that means showing daily stats or monthly stats, maybe the way it is is the best. Isnt the idea here to promote contest entries? Thats what I thought at least. And allowing some of us to feel good about the votes from posting often is a good thing.

For those of us that care, we can sort by whichever column we want and get the results we think make the most sense. You're reading way too much into what a 2nd and 3rd position listing will do to the quality of this site. It aint gonna make it worse or better. New people are going to show up and either stick around or not with or without them.

I dont believe you.

That's not what I'm all about. I simply want to see what got the most votes. That way I can look at that artist's portfolio and/or PM about how the artist accomplished what they created.

When I look at all the great choppers who don't post at all anymore.
I kinda think this is why.
If they got recognition then more of them would post.
We'd end up with the same number of daily entries, just by more
people and possibly of higher quality.
The profusion of post that recieve very few or no votes by poeple who've posted
in dozens of contest without any improvement should be a sign.
Where is THEIR recognition for posting often?
Yet even more people excluded.
BALANCE-- it would be nice.

And might I add that if Billtvshow was the first name on the
leaders page then from last month, these very people who are now at the top would have motivation to improve....
*edit* what I said, on reflection sounded cruel--
I'll try to say it a bit more politely.
I IMHO do not think that Bill would be motivated to be as good as those at the top of that list--I DO think THEY would be motivated to be as good as Bill.

Well I guess it is what it is. The stats wont ruin the site. And the art will always be of a top quality. I just like the more emotional feeling of this place than the cold comfort of the stats. I understand what you say show but for me I never compete to defeat.

Im new here, just under 12months, looking at my stats not doing to bad. Looking at my portfolio I like every image in there for some reason or another. For me it's like surfing, I like using my north shore gun, its big and its out there but no ones scared of the old bald guy just going with the flow.

Keep it clean and keep it honest, and this site will always rock.

wow this is an awesome thread

oh and show I wasnt trying to bring a confrontation here, reading back I realise some of the stuff I wrote could have been written in a more caring way, I was in a rush, I apologise for that.

And anyway show, I was agreeing with you, what you have reiterated several times on the 2 threads on this topic, is easily the simplest and most logical way of putting the arguement IMO

I have read and thought about all points that have been made here, and I still stand by my original idea, and I have noticed quite a few do to.

It wont change anything, just give some members who want to look, another thing to look at, if that are interested.

like, yes i'll admit it,...... I am.

keep up the super discussion guys and gals