I make $17.75/hr doing pre-press at a small print shop. I support 2 kids and a wife on that... So yeah, I'm starvin'

Haven't read the whole thread (and not sure if I will get the chance).

To compare I have a $1300 mortgage and all the trimmings. And I took a $18,000 a year pay-cut to become a full-time web developer.

The only nice thing is that, hopefully, other than the mortgage I'll be debt free in a few weeks.

Doing what you love to do for LESS is
BETTER than
Doing what you dislike for MORE.

I promise you this is true.

And sometimes (it happens more often than you might think) you'll end up getting MORE soon enough.

--------

WhimSea & the "D": thanks for noticing ME.

AMEN ta dat my brutha!

Okay - I'll actually give some data here instead of applying my Razor Sharp (and thus sometimes shredding) Wit.

When I started out "being full time unemployable by a Major Corporate party of Any Kind" I started out billing at $50 an hour. This caused me to quake in my boots. And yet I got enough work to pay the bills and buy some beer. I kept at it and over the decade or so I've been freelance I find myself in a similar place to ReyRey (and I'm sure others who play here): $80 an hour is my "BEST DEAL FOR FRIENDS" and this falls in the graphics area of my work. In the photoChopping/digital imaging area I charge around $150~$200 an hour. Where I have made good money is in the WEB design/build area - there I would charge a flat rate of $1600~$3000 to do a site top to bottom (depending on what would go into it) and then I'd work my ass off and really focus on the work. At those times I could sometimes command many hundreds of dollars an hour once the fee and the work time was averaged out.

One thing I'd really like you kids (of which I am one of you! ) to understand is this: one of the most IMPORTANT facts that dictate how much you can charge a client is your BELIEF THAT YOU ARE WORTH THAT MUCH.

If you are charging a rate based on some "competitor"s rate and you are not sure you can do as well, the client will probably sense that "doubt" in you and not trust you to do the work as much. I've seen some pretty crappy graphic artists (CLAF YOU FRENCH BASTARD!!) get WAY TOO MUCH MONEY for what they do only because their confidence in themselves is so high that the client absolutely trusts them (even though they are French!) and has no problem handing over the cash.

In another way of saying it: Practice Practice Chop Chop Chop until you just KNOW you KNOW what you are doing. So you become a master at what you do (and it doesn't have to be EVERYTHING THAT PHOTOSHOP or DREAMWEAVER does - just a few parts of it will do for starters) and then you can quietly let that confidence leak out of you (straight out bragging will NOT work in your favour - the client has to FEEL your confidence, not be whipped over the head with it )

Okay - I've told you too much. Now I'm going to have to kill you all. Sorry 'bout that.

SIDEBAR: (sorry, not trying to take over this thread, as I sometimes do - just got some things to say here. Please bear with me. (I guess I shouldn't use the term "bear" around BluLurker - I could get him all worked up! )

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Web design and build has been about 75% of my income over the last decade. I was never fancy or got into the deep end. My sites were basic and did the job well and had a ReinMan-like feel to them. My clients were more often than not happy with the end results.

I have NOT been happy doing this work for almost two years now. I have been attempting to swing my main income over to my 2nd favorite passion, photography. (Music will always be my #1, I suspect).

Over the last few years (some of you know this already - to avoid boredom please move along!) I've been trying to LESSEN my web-work and do more photography. But clients keep coming back for my web-stuff, because that is what I had been known to do. Two weeks ago I realized I had to just KILL my website work. AND, even more scary, shut down ANY graphics related work I was offering. So NoWallsDesign.com has closed its doors. I realized I couldn't FADE OUT (please see: Opacity Fader ) one thing to make room for the other. I had to TOTALLY BLOW IT AWAY.

Don't get me wrong - I'm currently SHAKING IN MY BOOTS. I've spent the last week or two figuring out a plan for this change up. Not all of it will be an easy road (having less $$ for a while will suck - but it won't be forever. And I can use a little weight, so the Missus tells me!).

I mention all this to reinforce what I said above: I gotta do what I love. The Creative Part of my wacky ReinSoul DEMANDS it. I am currently getting to know myself and where I am Solidly Confident in the old Photography world. I'm doing okay with my Photoshop aspect. Pretty good in my people/product relationship area. Need some serious work in Self-Promotion and Advertising stuff. Got some tricks up my sleave I'm gonna work at. BUT IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN... in my way of thinking: I'm not gonna be too happy on my death bed IF I KNOW I didn't honour that part of me that says GO FOR IT DUDE!

So: don't sweat so much what you are worth compared to anyone else out there. True, its good info to know and use as a base to get started. But in the creative realms the sky can be the limit. Or at least the top of the cherry tree! YOU tell me what you are worth. And if I can look you in the eye and I don't see any waivering, I just might fork over the dollars right there and then.

Okay - thanks for letting me sprek me truth!
ReinMan
(peace) OUT

I appreciate that someone around here noticed!

Have a great week!

HUGS!

Reinier

freelance web-coder/designer/chopper here. The situation is similar to all the ones described here: "struggling to get the end of the month". Luckily i don't have a mortgage to pay, always been scared of banks. The problem is:

way too many posers

There, i've said it.

I don't know about web + graphic designers... just heard it's not easy for freelance artists.
In my case, photo retouching & manipulation at 65-75$ per hour.
Illustration at 100$.

I've got the self Confidence thing down pat.
My current asking rate is $2,299.66 an hour and a first born child.
Oddly, I don't get a lot of business.

SILLY RABBIT! NO ONE wants to give up their FIRST BORN!! You gotta drop that to the SECOND or THIRD born - or maybe to their favorite dog or cat.

THen, and ONLY THEN, will you find yourself rewarded with STUFF!

I got some STUFF tonight! at the newspaper awards

3 1st place wins (3 certificates, 3 plaques)
1 2nd place wins
1 3rd place wins

and I volunteered to be part of the entertainment up on stage! I was teamed up with 2 other volunteers and we had to demonstrate 3 prizes for a game show.... that is to say we had to BE the prizes. We had to be a washer and dryer, exercise equipment and 3rd prize will be no surprise to you that I was 1/3 of a cuckoo clock! bwahahahahaha I admit it, being a Thespian is sure fun! No, I said Thesssspian -- with a "T-H"!!

I won't get any raise for this tho. I've gotten awards every year for 10 years now. Never get any raises for them!

Ha! Yes, The Man learned LONG AGO that a good "pat on the head" was much cheaper to give than an actual RAISE.



Too bad you are not getting more for your good work.
BUT you did get to be an inanimate object for a while. Life can't be all THAT bad.