I agree with tofu too, I don't agree with it, I think so long as you site your outside sources, you should leave it up to the general public to either find what they've done with it, worthy or not worthy of a vote.

what pharaoh did, IMPO was worth a vote he did a great job. but also like tofu said, I will abide by the rule (once its in place)

Oh I knew what you meant Stephen.

I don't like the idea that you can't use another view of the source you shot but I'd abide by it once it's a written rule.

I'm on DP's side as this was not a written rule before his entry got pulled.

I just hope we don't lose DP over this mess.

I guess it's been pulled; I don't see it anymore.... but wasn't there a controversial entry in this contest where a photo of a different angle of the same building was substituted? When the source was found, a lot of people were upset about it, I seem to remember... I don't think there was any question about what PS work had been done in that case, since it was obvious "none" had.

As far as chopping our own sources: I happen to feel that as long as the official starting image, at the given resolution, is the main one used, and the author's notes offer a disclaimer and/or a link to the outside sources, including any use of the original (super-high resolution) photo, then I could judge for myself what actual PS work on the official start image was done, and the entry in question would be "fair."

I do think it would have been more fair to have given DP the opportunity to make such a disclaimer before having his entry removed. But of course, I, too, will abide by whatever rules are set forth.

yep caffy, that was the one Anna Maria Jail.
the guy just posted a different google image as his 'work'

THATS WRONG

I'm with dp on this one... shouldn't have been pulled imho, that's too harsh, just a warning and an author's note with details on how things are, after all this is a one in a million situation. We can blame dp for not giving an author's note, but not for trying to deceive choppers into voting for him! As for not allowing submitters to chop their own chops, I think that's silly considering, as I said before, that this is a one in a million situation. Mods should upload his entry again in respect for those who already gave him votes today..

We're not considering that. That will still be allowed.

There have been many "discussions" about outside images not being cited, and someone or other's "worry" that the author will get more chopping credit than is due... Maybe a new rule should make it "mandatory" to include an author's note citing any and all outside images--at least in the form of a disclaimer or link to a montage of all images used (if not the original links where the images were found)? Sounds a bit strict, maybe, but may help cover a lot of issues that have arisen, including the current one of DP using his own alternate source...

I think that's how it should be too. Then there is no issue. Everyones points are valid. It's a grey area. In one way I've had to take pictures to make something happen because I couldn't get the right angle or whatever. On the other end I see what Billy is saying on the unfair advantage because it's difficult to change a perspective of a person but I think in this case rather than pulling it that DP can post his source(s) with his submit and then it goes into stone from here on out on what the rule is.

I think some people don't understand the point here... You CAN take pics on your own if you want the perfect angle, a better quality, etc, and can't find it anywhere on the web... But you can't take advantage of your own source pic. Would you allow me to submit a source pic of my hand... then take a second one of it with the same angle, finger crossed (do some minors color changes just to say I chopped it) and enter that one in a contest?

No.

Am i guilty here Sean?
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/119048/flag.html


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I think DP doesn't do anything wrong by the rules.

SOZE why are you asking me?

I'm not the one who had the problem here.

but I don't see anything 'wrong' with the entry you're asking about.

You know, you are my Teacher. Whom have i asking?

And in the past you readed in the right way my bad english. Do you remember?
.

Seriously..... i put in my opinion agree with DP. Using the source as you like. Important is to not have bad intention in your work.
And i think the every one can see if an immagine is manipulated or simply another shot in another view.

My english is not bad at all!!
Yihou!

I agree with you BUT I just think it's a little harsh pulling the submit out when it's clear based off the amount and variety of posts in this forum that's it's an unclear rule and so that's why I suggested putting the submit back in with the compromise this time that there is a link to the original sources used. Personally when I first looked at it I didn't know DP submitted the original and thought he manipulated the perspective so I was mislead as well but I don't agree with pulling it when we still don't really have any rule in place for this. Just mo which usually get's me half a cup of coffee

Your example is like the Anna Maria Jail example that Sean and Caffy brought up. No work done and just a different angle of the shot submitted as a chop. This is not what DP did. DP did use/chop the original. In my opinion it was obvious what he did and therefore not a problem to me.

I recognize the argument that having alternative angles of the original source can be considered an unfair advantage. I don't think it is but I can understand how others do. I also agree that trying to pass off a different angle of the shot as a chop is bad. But again that's not what DP did.

If this had been a written "rule" that appeared in the FAQ, the site's TOU and/or image submission page then I'd be okay with yanking DP's entry. If DP had submitted the alternate angle as a stand alone chop I'd be okay with pulling it as well.