Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzttttttt

Hate to buzzer you on that one BUT there are known instances of "happily" married men (some with children) catching their families off-guard and admitting they were gay. I know this not from first-hand knowledge but because I watch way too much Discovery channel.

Anyway while they were, in all likelihood, already gay to begin with; it does fall into the description you gave above.

Happened to my best friend - married a decade, two kids, 30+ years old, "sorry honey - I have to leave you as I realize I'm gay now". I agree with Tofu that the "gayness" may have been there from the start, but for some people it isn't as cut and dried as others (and I've had friends who knew they were gay from childhood - so that does happen too).

Forget sexuallity specifically - finding out Who You Are can sometimes be a very confusing and time consuming enterprise.

The thing is, that person always knew he was gay, but was in denial. He decided to accept that fact after he was married and had kids. I am talking about a straight man who genuanly (can't spell that) likes woman to suddenly genuanly like men...

ssshisto--it's the internet..everybody knows better than everybody else.
Maybe some day you'll have a wife..and after ten years she'll find herself bored and get curious, then all kinds of things can happen.
People finding a thing and finding they are comfortable or enjoy it do not have to be born that way.

PS. I hardly believe that Rein was BORN a Plushie freak.

rofl i gotta say... lol


Errm where to begin...denial...



We all know to denie is to say no to somthing you know to be real...

The guy reiner described was not in denial he just changed his mind later in life.... thats his choice.

or was it...

Choices influenced by society... Thats always a good one...

The phrase "its ok to be gay" somtimes rings too true in peoples heads...


Think bout that thought process makes you question your own sexuality.. which is always a bad thing...

Personally: And i usually dont mention that word...

I think that homosexuality is a social infliction caused by repeative cognitive reinforcment of a social scenario... resulting in a state of mind accepting the idea... which later becomes a persons way of life...


of course thats entirly academic...

Endless debate... but it's sort of how I see it too.

I believe it is a conscious or subconscious choice. How can one fully embrace their life, path and choices if they believe that what they like and what they are was already set at birth?

Worse are those who look in genes for answers, trying to find the gay gene; sounds like a Nazi quest for 'social cleansing'.



Social infliction? When has homosexuality hurt anyone?

Plus, rejecting an idea doesn't help in any way to make it disappear. It might even make it more attractive to some.

I know one thing that causes a lot of hurt: intolerance.

Took me a minute to see it Michel's way--I saw it subtler..
Kinda like--if you'd never seen it in your peers you'd never thought to do it yourself...
like smoking--if ya never saw someone smoking, how likely are you to start rolling up leaves and sucking on them. Is anyone born a smoker..I dunno, doubt it.
I however believe that some people are born with the tendency at least, and one kid I grew up with pretty much convinces me some boys are born that way.

I disagree here. He didn't change his mind later in life. He was denying his homosexuality because, in general (and especially a few decades or more ago), it is highly frowned upon in society. He was always gay. He didn't change his mind.



Society doesn't influence choices? (Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by this) It certainly influences the choice to be openly gay.



Many question their sexuality...but most 'straight' individuals realize right away that they're not gay.



Repetitive cognitive reinforcement or a social scenario? I don't ever remember homosexuality being reinforced in society. ...repetitively? I think not. If anything, quite the opposite, thus why it is so hard for some to accept it.

I know way too many gay men and woman that disagree with that and never say it in front of the politically correct mainstream.
It's like a racial hate crime to say you switched teams.

What does 'that' refer to?



I don't know if I'd take it that far, though I realize what you're saying. However, I highly doubt that 'switching teams' occurs. I base this on my own experience and that of every gay person I have conversed with on this subject. Why would someone who is truly heterosexual want to be part of a group that is not as socially accepted?

(I realize some guys / girls do it for attention... I also think that act is incredibly stupid.)

Man, we could really get into a long discussion over this one.
I certainly believe that some people are genetically born with a strong propensity to be gay. I also certainly believe that some people make a
choice to embrace homosexuality as a lifestyle they prefer later in life.
I believe some people are born with such a strong propensity that
no matter what environment they grow up in..they are gay...period.
I believe some people are born with a weaker propensity toward being gay and are heavily influenced by their environment..that would explain why half of the gay identical twins in this county have a twin that is not gay---
that other half where both are gay is a strong argument for the genetic
trait having the major role in this.
I've never seen any reason why a "gay gene" has to be either on or off,
(nor ever heard it argued--just taken for granted)
(IE: there are certainly bisexuals who take their sexual orientation just as serious as anyone else.)
don't just about all other genetic traits reveal themselves at different levels?

i'm glad i stayed out of this one

Actually you can find that out in your genes. They did a recent study with people who are religious and the found a gene that tends to apear up more in religious people that non religious people.

And also to Scion, smoking is diffrent then homosexuality. You can grow up smoking and like it no matter who you are. But if you grow up raised to be straight and strongly in some situations, you can still turn out gay. And if you are raised by a gay couple and are surrounded by homosexuality, you can still grow up straight.

[quote="ssshisto"]
It's funny you should mention that, cause it exemplifies the point of view I am taking except in reverse....because.... it is a predilection, and a choice and not a result of environment, but sometimes influenced by environment...
so..I aint saying someone being raised around one trait or another is likely to become 'programmed' to emulate that trait, but I am saying
that someone raised around strong opinions can be programmed, or
agitated to rebel, taking on certain attitudes of bigotry and nonacceptance.
Be careful what you believe, anyone claiming a genetic predilection
to have faith which is a 'choice' is a liar. In the name of open mindedness , we have entered an age where 'popular opinion' and media generate and
propound the 'new bigotry'. What is a low key intolerance now can become tomorrows genocide. Nietzsche,to Hitler, to millions around the world today would love the excuse to purge the world of defects with the 'religion gene' by soon to be simple in-utero genetic correction . In America, current theory that the 'gay gene' has been identified and can be countermanded by the simple application of a little extra testerone to a fetus a few weeks before birth would become an exercised practice if it were true.