On their chops?

I'm always reluctant to be critical of anyone's work...particularly in the votes/comments section. I tend to just hit the vote button.

But my question is this.....do people really want constructive feedback about their work? Do they want it on the post or by PM? How many people are upset when when someone finds fault in their work?

There are quite a few posts in recent times that I would dearly like to offer some feedback on. Little things that I think could be improved and such. Edges, shadows, mismatches in res and lighting. It seems that there is very little feedback happening of late. I remember my early days here when I would get 'chipped' by Rey or BTVS or others about little things they had noticed in a chop. Shadows, perspective, lighting etc. Shadows were always my problem!

I've had PMs from various members offering constructive criticism and advice. I've always appreciated this sort of stuff, and feel that I've improved over time as a result of it.

I'm not sure if it's just me or not, but I don't see much of this happening any more. Is it?

I look forward to the comments from the experts. I personally am no where near the quality of work most have, but I'm trying. If there is something to learn, I want to know.

Well I definitely ain't no expert either......and I'm not sure that I should even be giving advice to others about their work. There certainly are plenty of real experts here though.

I just see stuff here and there that irks me a little. Stuff that I wouldn't be prepared to post. Now I'm only a pretty average chopper, but I take quite a bit of time with most chops. I dither and fix stuff, and view large and go back and fix stuff....and so on.

I tend to think that the really good chops here are defined by the attention to detail. Like I said....the edges, shadows lighting and stuff. But are people really interested in improving this? Or taking the time to do it?

I'm just wondering if the overall quality of stuff here at PSC is on the improve or not.

I love feedback, I don't get much tho.

I tend to pick the things I like in the image, I use to give advice but like you buck Im no expert. But an easy way to get round this point would be a button to click on the image up load.
Opinions wanted
and a little tick or icon of some sort could but shown on the author's comments...or just type..opinions wanted on this image.

Ok 2cents over with

Move along nothing to see here

Well I was looking at an entry the other day and thought I might PM the author with some ideas. So I downloaded their chop, touched up some stuff to show them and was half way through a PM to them.....when I thought "heck, who am I to be doing this?" By the time I had said "you could fix this and that and the other", I thought 'do they really want to hear all this?' The entry was sitting on 25 votes or something, so they were probably real happy with that. Obviously people were voting for it! So all they needed was some know-it-all Aussie to PM them picking out faults. So I binned the pic and the PM!

I did something like that for someone (no names)... think the pm came back thanks put in the file... which sounded to me like it was 86'd. whatever. NO SOUP FOR YOU!! bwahahahahaha

other times I've offered to help, or noticed something and commented NICELY and usually get a good response that they want help.... of course, if something is just wrong with the chop - legally or morally, I'm usually not the only one to comment.

Feed back is great if the feed back is too help or point out things that would help. Now some take it too far, and it becomes nit picking.
Although we all strive to become better i'm sure. To point out something that would not really help, but was just not perfect or what you would have done personally is nit picking.
Not that i mean YOU personally blue and buck or anyone else. I just mean a comment like i think the birds would look better with purple plumes instaed of pink. Unless the color was just totally off and killing the entry. You get my drift.
Mostly i am afraid of leaving comments, than getting them. Me being hardheaded as a mule. Comments that are nitpicking usually get looked over.

Now when leaving comments i am either going to say well done or joke around about it. The reason is this, How am i going to comment on anything micose does or reggie does and not feel like the cat telling the bird how i think he should fly.

Feel free to leave anything that you think would help, and even if you feel like leaving YOU SUCK. Trust me i have seen a few of my chops and that would not be far off.

Buck pull my file out the bin and send it to me.

The answer for me is yes, and I am working on some things after some suggestions were made although sometimes it is hard to understand how to do things technically any suggestions that will improve the artist are helpful.

There are places named X out there that are very into critiquing the art. It can help but it can also be one of the biggest places to have a good brawl running over the comments and the voting. Somebody is always trying to hatchet somebody.

I don't know how you can get the needed critiques without it getting out of hand and becoming a place you hate to log onto . Pming needed critiques maybe the answer but it can deprive people from learning or even knowing how others can improve the piece.

It may be impossible to have good art information sharing co-existing nicely with a negative spirt that can form from this critique, miffed feelings food fights etc.
HOW TO DO IT? HOW?

Didn't read all the replies but I for one would LOVE to have feedback on my chops (few and far between as they are lately).

Feedback is how I learn.

But see I understand just as Dew does that who is supposed to critique? See this is how it works on other sites. You critique the thing honestly. You get hate mail, people who are top guys/ photoshop teachers get pissed the new person had the conjones to say anything about the piece other than "Splendid". Several people get involved in the fray, the piece gets yanked into the forum with an outright flame war ensuing people then quit or hide in the corner and cry because of the artistic ego/temperment.

Comments can be taken wrong, then there is the whole mean spirt about retailation comments and or voting.
So there is an art to this comment business. HOW.. and I hated that other place because it was war all the time. I love this place because i feel you don't have vendetta wars running here.

Ditto to all above.

Next to my entries there is my avatar and above my avatar there is my name, and when you push that you get to my profile and there it says: PM - click on that and you will get a whole new page where you can comment all you like to your hearts content.


*sigh*

I keep waiting and waiting and waiting every day for somebody to write to me. And on a few rare occasions I have received actual advise and comments that I could sink my teeth in. For real. Or use a next time, to better the next chop.

And I even have pm'ed some people myself, because I wondered about something and put my 2 cents in. And nobody chewed my head off over that. I think we all like to receive pm's on what we do here, even the people who get many votes. Because giving somebody extra time, and giving their work extra looks, closer, detailed looks, when you are wondering about something, means that you actually care about what other people have done with the asignment of the day.

I am not saying that we should start writing pm's on all the entries right away. We'ld have to give up our dayjobs for that. But, don't ever think: "WHO AM I TO DO THAT???" - You are the one who at that moment sees something that may help further an entry. Give it just that little edge perhaps, or make sure that others won't say - "that mistake takes that image down, lets forget about that one, who made that? Boy - he/she sucks at this!!"


See, I even wrote on this forum, and I bet you don't even know that in real life my people skills suck so much that I can't go outside my house and mingle with real people.

Feedback, one teacher in the Police academy said, long time ago, when we learned about the Mazlow Pyramid, good feedback is making the other person feel good about themselves, while at the same time they learn more on how to improve themselves.

And remember, good feedback is not a rush thing. It's not like "I told you that, so now you do it!!" It's

* takes position under the mailbox and waits for things to drop in...*

* gets up again, realizing something from other forums *

PS All of the above in a few simple lines for the non english readers:

Everybody loves feedback! And when you think you see something that could help the other person, you write them a PM, that's what pm is for. It is up to the receiver to think "This might work, thanks - or - Thanks, but I like to do things my way!"

As long as you don't trash peoples entries or say they suck - and keep your feedback constructive, you can't go wrong.[/i]

I got a comment one time, that said: "I would have used Liquify on that..."

And, being new still at my Adobe Photoshop SC, I wondered, where have I seen that before??

So I opened the programme and just pushed all the buttons that I had dare push before but never was brave enough to try out - (for lack of a good instruction manuel) - and there it was. Liquify in filters. Knew I had seen it, and it came with a very scary whole new page, with more scary buttons that did not seem to do anything. Duh... at the time I tested the buttons the first time I did so with an empty page ... but I had no idea.

Well, I still have to thank that person for mentioning that one word in the comment on my entry that day. Because after that I started to experiment with all the different things in my photoshop, and never tried to create my works like I did before. Safe, in Paint with the occasional help from Adobe.



You know who gave you the comment and you can email them all the time with questions, I say. Go for it!!

well we could have tutorial contests.. you know where a tut comes with a source and you follow the tut and people can enter these side contests knowing the piece is going to get comments cause it's in a special area just to do this....... this could work.... and if it worked in that "test" zone then it could spill out over onto the main contests.

Well I like to read comments on my chops. I think many of them have helped me a lot on improving my work.

Know comments sometimes hurt a bit...but everyone doesn't have the same potential to handle the criticism...I think we all agree to that. On the other hand some people don't want to hurt someone...by pointing out there mistakes(here comes the identity part) If I am pointing out someones mistake in 'writing'(tone matters), I don't know what he will feel when he will read the comment. Its difficult to write something in the same way we feel in our mind.( all those punctuation stuff).

So here is a suggestion: Make a suggestion part (like votes and comments), but there would not be any identity disclose of the giver. This will solve one part of the problem I discussed above.
What do you all think???

Manoj.