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dunno

Location: here

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:45 pm   Reply with quote         


I haven't been here for a while, so most of you won't know me - hi to those who might remember. But i was around every now and then and got interested again by the new site setup (cheers to jmh, nice work dude!)

ANYWAY...

To say the least, i am disappointed - and thus i find it time to raise a subject that almost regularly comes up here. It has to. Sorry oldbies for pushing it.
As introduction i have to remember "the old days" when i came here and posted. I was with almost every contest wondering and amazed, got those big question marks around my head and could just not figure how to realize such chops.
What i see these days is, that the standards dropped - and much. Don't get me wrong, i am not a professional who feels left alone or such, i am just searching distraction with PS and i am still happy with my one-and-only win. But i have two eyes to see and i miss one thing badly: Quality. The feeling for details, ligthing, shadows, clean cutting, integration of external sources and so on. Nobody can help a lack of ideas (and i know what i'm talking about), but if one chops, he/she should try to go for the personal "technical" limits.
I know, we all start somewhere and also my abilities with photoshop are still pretty limited. The result was always, that my entries got "rewarded" for what they were worth (which means a few votes only). But even that seemed to be changed these days and its bothering me even more: There is a voting and partying and "hooray" going on about chops which might lift my eyebrow just a little. Other chops which i would expect at least somewhere on the first page seem to be overlooked. So not only that the general entry quality dropped (exceptions are there, of course), but also the voter's standards adapted and seem to appreciate... uhm... just other things more than quality, impact of a picture or exceptional art. Maybe somebody can explain those other things to me or give a hint to what this site changed into.
See, there is nothing wrong with personal encouragement or enjoying the own work as a group, or class you could say here. To pick that one up, i have the feeling i left an AAA university and came back finding a lower school - all are still enjoying themselves, but instead of studying and having decent partys (hey, thats part of it!) we are playing softball in the schoolyard.
Fine for me, but a pity for this site.

Cheers.




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ReyRey

Location: In a world of $#!t

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:51 pm   Reply with quote         


Shocked Crying or Very sad




ScionShade

Location: VeniceFlaUS

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:57 pm   Reply with quote         


Hey dunno! How ya been!?
I'm gonna give ya my response, but I'm gonna try to keep it kinda neutral.
I agree with you to the extent that it always was this way really.
It never was "Great" every day...also there are periods when
the more experienced choppers chop heavily and periods when
those working their way up chop heavily.
it may seem more of the later lately because so many experienced choppers are not chopping frequently at this time,
BUT there are days..there are days when the chops are the highest quality ever.


Smile




Paul Von Stetina

Location: Deep Shit

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:06 pm   Reply with quote         


Hey Dunno, please enlighten us with your skills, I know PSC has every type of chopper here, from beginners to experts like you, so I look forward to seeing something that will make this site tremble with your greatness Very Happy




ReyRey

Location: In a world of $#!t

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:10 pm   Reply with quote         



Why you young whipper snappers don't know good art anymore!!! (cough,,grunt) Listening to your loud boogie woogie music. (makes a disgusted face) Why when I was younger, we chopped with rocks. We would chip away at a stone until we created an image and our hands were bloody. (Holds gnarled hands up) You young punks have no creativity. We would take poop and make icecream because we were that good. You brats don't know nuthin'!!! Argh Razz
STFUACS Wink




dunno

Location: here

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:17 pm   Reply with quote         


Hey Scion, still around here? loads of work kept me busy...
Concerning the topic, i hope the "better" day swill come soon. Its a pity to see how average most is - and how happy people seem to be with it anyway.

Hi Paul, i guess you didn't read my words correctly (or i just wrote to much). I wrote that i have by far not the skills i'd like to have. As well i am everything but an expert. Sorry that it is not up to me to show you "the light". But again, i have eyes to see and i think i can separate a quality chop from e.g. a cut'n'paste. And so do you, i guess. That is (basically) all i am asking for.




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Heinlein

Location: Rochester, New York

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:19 pm   Reply with quote         


Laughing Rey Rey, you make me laugh Laughing




mikey

Location: Somerville MA

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:26 pm   Reply with quote         


I think there are a lot of new people here these days that are learning" after a while they will get really good, also it gets harder and harder to please the World because seen that, been there, done that takes over" Rolling Eyes This is a place of many skill levels, just have fun and keep learning, after all" Who in the World do you think you are? a superstar?...well right you are!! ~ Very Happy Cool




dunno

Location: here

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:39 pm   Reply with quote         


Very Happy @ Rey˛

Anyway, i will stfuacs later, if you don't mind. I am not really fine with it all yet and curious for other reactions.
.
.
Mikey for example.. Hey Mikey, all correct what you say. But what i saw over the last months, it was in average somehow only going down.
My opinion though.




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TofuTheGreat

Location: Back where I belong.

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:41 pm   Reply with quote         


Hey dunno! One thing I've noticed is that the quality seems to rise and fall occassionally. Many of the gurus don't come around anymore and the void gets filled with people who've come here to learn. So quality drops a bit.

Then BAM! Along comes a contest where there's so many good entries that your head spins. Quality stays up for a while and then wanes again.

Personally I've decided to heed btvs's mantra and not enter a contest unless I can devote the time and energy to do a good entry. Ever since adopting this attitude I've noticed that the ideas are coming easier.

The downside is that I don't have the time to execute the ideas at the quality that I'd like to have. So many times I start a chop and don't enter it because I didn't get it finished. Occassionally I'll enter a close-to-finished entry if I really liked the idea though.




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Created using photoshop and absolutely no talent. - reyrey

Paul Von Stetina

Location: Deep Shit

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:50 pm   Reply with quote         


Rey, I think you missed your calling Laughing Dunno, I hear what your saying, but you pretty much ranked on everyone, we all have our good days and bad days, unless if your Rey or Anfa,(their always bad) but you have a lot of newbie's here that don't know better, and they're just trying out, but most of us do actually put some thought and time into our work, don't forget, we aint getting paid to do this, so that could have something to do with what you're talking about, maybe if you want the quality to go up, offer $100 dollars to the winner on a daily basis and see what happens Shocked Razz




armogeden

Location: The other side of your screen

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:51 pm   Reply with quote         


i thought i was getting better but evidentally it's just everyone else getting worse... Crying or Very sad Mad




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erdaest

Location: Raleigh, NC

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:57 pm   Reply with quote         


Dunno, I happen to be amongst the newbies here and although I can understand your point of view some of us are using the site to expand our understanding of the skills necessary to do the job right. I happen to think I've got skills yet, have seen that its always a lesson learned with each post. If I did not get the response I though I might or should have gotten, I just take it with a grain of salt, stand back, observe, learn and try to improve. Try to push the envelope as best I can. The skills are here. Art's beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the way one uses the site is up to us as individuals. We can't control other's perspective, motives or actions all the time but, we can express as you have and simply do the best we can with integrity and self-beleif. Smile




ScionShade

Location: VeniceFlaUS

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:33 pm   Reply with quote         


armogeden wrote:
i thought i was getting better but evidentally it's just everyone else getting worse... Crying or Very sad Mad

No Armo, nobody in any possible way wants to discourage someone who is working at excelling. You are doing the right thing, you get better all the time, you have one of the best attitudes around.
I understand what Dunno is trying to say, and I assure you,
the guy does not mean you..or anyone else who chops often
and is gaining skills.
Certainly people have noticed that many who liked to "attempt" chopping a perfect chop in the past are posting far less often..
spending far more time on their thought processes and idea development rather than 'just' skills.
This game HAS gotten harder. There are more people than ever who can do incredible shading, and reflections, and textures.
My goodness..look at when we have reunion contests and everybody KNOWS they will definately be competing with everyone else doing their absolute best.
Plus one more thing..there are quite a few people who are right now at this moment just hitting their stride and being able to chop what is in their heads the way they want to see it.
Competition here is about to get very tough for a little while. Smile




jeff_in_dallas

Location: Grapevine, TX

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:14 pm   Reply with quote         


Dunno,

I can see where you are coming from...to a degree.

I used to be active here in 2002/2003ish and was often blown away by some of the entries by the 'heavy hitters'. I also remember seeing plenty of...(polite cough)...not so stellar work as well.

I've been gone a couple of years and just recently came back.

What I see now is an equal number of really stellar chops, but also a lot more beginners who are just learning their way.

I will agree with your point about 'overall quality' in one way. Back then, when PSC was not as well known or popular, the contributors were more likely to be hardcore Photoshop users and/or professional graphics artists.

Digital cameras and photo editing software (like Photoshop Lite and PaintShop Pro) are more powerful and less expensive than ever before.

Coupled with the fact that PSC has become more 'mainstream', the talent pool now includes more beginners and dabblers than in the past.

I think I like *this* version better. It going to be exciting to see new Photoshop users develop and grow.

I think it's cool when the 'experts' share tips and hints with the 'noobs'. It's more of a learning atmosphere than I recall it ever being before. You know the old saying.. "All boats rise with the tide" Smile

Anyway...a site like this is *always* going to have cliques. After all, as far as I can tell, all the members here are people.




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