ReinMan wrote:
uhhh...isnt that supposed ta be "Jumps The Shark" ?....I know small detail, but.....

Hm.. interesting indeed that most people here have been able to keep this thread going in a mostly polite and respectful way... been a while since we've seen a "heavy" topic like this covered as well and going for so many pages without collapsing into a bitch-fest which required moderators to close/delete...

Personally, I believe:

1) There is a God - a single, intelligent being who provides creative energy and has a purpose for his creation, not multiple gods/goddesses, not a vague impersonal force or "collective entity", and not just an "old man on a cloud" type detached and/or remote from creation;
2) That the Bible is God's word;
3) That spiritual truth and the possible existence of a god and are not the same as "religion", and many people from both religious and non/anti-religious viewpoints forget this or deliberately fail to draw the distinction.

One reason why I sympathise with agnostics and atheists who get very upset and/or angry at "religious" people is because of the falsehoods about God and spirituality that most of the major religions have perpetuated through the centuries. And increasingly today in particular, that a lot of people who claim themselves to be "religious" clearly use it as a label or cover - just a cursory glance at their day-to-day behaviour or their attitudes shows they do not actually believe what they claim to.

However, these facts are not sufficient reason to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and claim that since lots of 'Christian' people are nothing of the sort, all Christianity/religion/belief is false and there is no God. That's a convenient get-out for those who don't want to face spiritual questions, or have already fixed on a position that all religion is a sop.

To compare - most people agree that most political parties in every country from across the spectrum are often dishonest, don't do what they claim or constantly screw up - but hardly anyone would use that as justification for junking all politics and political issues/debates around the world. However, that reasonable distinction goes out of the window with those who say the world's religions are dishonest or don't do what they claim, and then make the leap of logic that therefore there is no God and/or no need to examine spiritual things. It's that kind of inconsistency of thinking and approach that annoys me with a number of agnostic (and particularly atheistic) people, since they often display the same kind of contradictory, muddled or closed-minded thinking that they (admittedly often rightly) accuse religious people of showing, while at the same time claiming to be more "realistic", "logic" or "practical" in their thinking than a religious person.

I see peoples point about creationism, but logically, as I know the universe I am part of, and all things around me that I interact with or otherwise, I just can't believe the bible as it is written. To me it always has been a book that has sold really well with some great stories in. But thats all.

also, slightly different area of the topic, I love it when Jehovah’s Witnesses come to my door, I against the sterotype of getting rid of them as soon as possible, I love having a debate on the doorstep, hey, I have even invited some in for a cup of tea

I just put my point across, as do they, although mostly a little more pressurised, in a kind of join us way but alas, what always happens is the conversation starts going in vast circles. Me putting forward my views, they do likewise, I even occaisionally admit that in some cases they may have a point, they sadly never do the same. Not all religions are the same obviously, I am just using experiences I have had. But in this instance, I am always dissapointed they are never open to my views in any small way at all. This, is where on a grander and more political scale a war is then born, when 2 groups dispute, and have no room to take new views.

A big part of what is up with the world sadly.

HTUK??? so you're alive...

There is a god in each one of us.

Aint that the truth Marco, above all else, people need to keep an open mind, no matter how crazy something sounds, if you don't believe something, fine, but at least entertain the thought, if you do believe something and others don't, all you can do is put forth your point of view, and hope others are not offended to the point where they want to kill you.
I've always wondered how people would react if Alien life was ever truly discovered, and the whole Adam and Eve story was turned upside down, would you act any differently if you found out tomorrow that we were just an experiment from some Grey's? Don't you find it interesting that few humans use even 10% of their brains, and that maybe were capable of doing things no one thought possible, like communicating telepathically, or meditating to the point were you don't age as fast, maybe the ability to heal with touch, or through thought, 90% of an unused brain is a lot of wasted space, I know it would help me with my chops

I hope you guys read that!

Joel is a friend of mine and he is into religion, so his views do not represent my views.

This is finestcall views of religion
1) Believe in GOD
2) Believe in Christ
3) Believe in Myself

I don't like church or pray since is only a waste of time.

I'm sorry, Paul, ya just made me choke on my morning coffee.
As a Christian, I imagine yer referring to people like us,
I have to ask--why, if say it actually happened,
life was found on other worlds...
Why do you think that would disprove how man got to be here?
*edit* I'm sorry..
Why do you think it would turn it upside down?

Ah, well, does scripture clearly state that man was created first?
I never saw anything absolutely clear on the issue and the exact order of events precluding man.
Perhaps you'd have to show me that 'time' itself existed,
and/or was needed before the creation of man.
Angels for example are an intricate part of our religion,
are they not what you would classify as alien life?
Reminds me of those who have said to me..
"Dinosaurs were only discovered a couple hundred years ago, why aren't they in your bible?"
Well, just because you renamed our dragons as dinosaurs now means that dragons never existed?

I don't see any of that as a problem,i think
you're drawing mistaken conclusions, aside from
your dinosaur statement. Why would dinosaurs have to exist before the Earth?