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patim

Location: Netherlands

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:23 am   Reply with quote         


Sorry to be the zilionth one to leave the site, but it is getting out of hand. I must say that it is making me much to angry.

You can call me a sore loser, but that isn't really the thing here. In spite of my earlier leave, I blame this a bit at my lack of knowledge of what people like or dislike.

About a year ago I left the site for I was fed up with the friend voting stuff. It was so obvious, and I couldn't change it, so I decided to quit here. Not long ago I got an email that the site was changed. I decided to join again and start competing again. Only to find out that the site was changed, but the behaviors hadn't.

So again I quited to compete. Not that I find myself a superb chopper. I think I'm average with sometimes an outstanding entry. But to lose, any given contest, from people who are to well known and have too many friends, is not fair. And than I mean lose from a significant worse chop, just cause your name is Patim.

I decided to get in H2h2007 and started off well. Nonetheless, I was again surprised by a lot of winning entries. I see people lose, from just hopelessly bad chops and I'm wondering if people just know one way or another, who's chop it is.

The following has NOTHING to do with Mason. I think he is a gifted chopper and I Know he does overall better than I do. But for round three I worked 20+ hours to get everything right. First I took everything out and had a picture just like Mason (maybe I should have quit there). Than I added all the people, the road, the signs, the stores, the car and everything. Ended up with an entry that was way beyond the opponent. Than losing because everybody likes the simple cleanup better than my work is sore and IMHO not photoshop worthy. As I explained earlier, I guess I just don't know what people like. I think chopping is more than the average cleanups etc. But that's me. Again, This is NOT against Mason, It could have been anybody. I've seen a lot of simple entries winning in this H2h.

Well, that's it for me. I wish you all as much luck and happiness as you can get. Goodbye.

P.s. I won't delete all my entries as Jeff did (who had the same issues here I guess).




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Stevster

Location: Jacksonville FL

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:36 am   Reply with quote         


So you're telling me that you cleaned up the road of the source picture just to place an external image over top of it. I didn't vote for you because the people have messed up shadows and the perspective was off. http://photoshopcontest.com/tournament/view/593/display.html

It's frustrating to lose in anything in life, giving up is not always the best answer. But best of luck to you in the future.

-Steve




buglover

Location: Hamburg, Germany, Europe, right hand of the USA

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:36 am   Reply with quote         


Hi Patim,

makes me sad cause U want to leave, but I can't change. I voted for mason not cause of the cleanup. my comment was something like "I never thought I'ld vote for a clean up, but this umbrella is just right there where it should be". I think that's what most people thought.

Any of us had this cleanup idea and nobody did - cause to obviouse. Mason made it and without that umbrella there he wouldn't have won.

Please don't be angree with people. And maybe once a day U'll say - K, let's give it an other try.

cu torsten




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deshone

Location: .NL

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:47 am   Reply with quote         


Patim,

Like Stevster said there was alot of things wrong in your chop ... and it's not a good chop just because you spend 20 hrs on it ... if you had the same result as hellraiser you would have kicked mason's ass ... but after 20 hrs you didn't ... so don't blame the voters on this ... just accept you are an average chopper and have fun doing chops ...

And when you accuse friends voting for friends then tell us who you think did it ... otherwise it's useless for the discussion ...

groeten,
D1




Granulated

Location: London

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:49 am   Reply with quote         


I have to say I cant believe the margin of defeat.
I voted for you coz a cleanup is relatively easy on that kind of source.




TheShaman

Location: Peaksville, Southeast of Disorder

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:51 am   Reply with quote         


Rolling Eyes
meh
Patim, you win some and you loose some. Take it like a grown-up, and don't freakin quit the site because of it!

Personally for me, Masons clean up was much better, it was clean, you couldn't see clone stamping all over it. It was a professional cleanup.. (not exactly the best idea) your idea was better (going modern) but... if we're being honest, you didn't do much with the shadowing/color correction nor with the fact that the objects in the background are still quite sharp and some are out of perspective. It may have taken 20+ hours but that doesn't = win.

I know for me I'm doomed if I spend over 4 hours on any given entry. I don't win all the time either, but I'm not going to throw in the towel because of it. Chalk it up to a learning experience, and move forward.


It was a nice idea, but it was just not blended well enough for me to vote on it. Look, I did almost the same sort of thing, I placed things into my entry too, but I 'blended' and 'color corrected' the hell out of it. Theres your difference. Nothing on yours seems to actually blend into your scene. Cut and paste is what turns people to the other entry. I don't wish to be harsh with you, but you seem to need the honesty. And well, I'm one who will always be honest, even to the point of being brash. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm picking on ya, I'm not trying to. I honestly am trying to tell you what I see, and how it could be improved... But you made it to round #3 for petesake! Isn't that an accomplishment in itself?

Please don't quit. Thats childish. Learn from it!
Peace
Sean




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Eve
Site Moderator

Location: Planet Earth

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:52 am   Reply with quote         


i only count 35 votes under Mason's post...what's up w/ that? Another Safari glitch?

Patim...I admire your work. Didn't understand your comings and goings in the past, but wish you'd stick around and keep refining your work.

Right now, I'm feeling worse for Delucx who lost by one vote. Crying or Very sad




Micose

Location: Quebec (CAN) & France

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:53 am   Reply with quote         


thats not about whoring Patim...theres are technical issues in yours...sorry....u sdhould be happy to make that 3rd r, i was out with a definitly good shit ...btw i forgot to whine...whatevr i dont need a lifetime advantage cuz it would be bad news for my life if i d keep addicted to PSC for the next 20 years to come...it would just keep my addiction alive...harrr...
Watch them Drift

Location: Connecticut

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:01 am   Reply with quote         


Think of it this way, you could spend 8 years of your life recreating a source image pixel by pixel, but that doesnt mean the nerd who put a worm going through the apple in 30 seconds wont beat you. Very Happy




marcoballistic

Location: I am everywhere, and Nowhere, but mostly, I am right here!

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:13 am   Reply with quote         


I have to say, it is sad to see you leave like this Patim.

But I also have to agree with Steve Sean and Desh, the idea you had was a brave one, but undeniably flawed in perspective, shadow and depth work.

The painting element you kept are painted with depth, the background buildings losing distinction in relation to the foreground work, yet the replaced people you used are perfectly sharp unfortunately, as are the signs.

And a little less saturation to bring the new elements into the orignal painting would have helped.

2 min job here no where near perfect, but just an idea:



another point is you have elements that have lighting coming from the side, left, right and front in the image, always makes an image look odd.

Also, to say Mase's was a simple clean up, is a little bit of a lie. I enjoy occaisionally doing clean ups on images that would be hard to do them well on, like the 'great hall' comp a few days ago. And I know how hard it can be, and time consuming to match colours and repair elements/contrasts to make sure the new reapiared look flows naturally.

So basically, I am sad to see you decide to leave, and think the h2h is based on friend voting. I think your wrong, and because you spent so much time with your entry, you love it like a son, and so you should. But bottom line is, Mason deserved the win. Like Bug says, not only the clean up, but the clever composition of the umbrella, was a joy to see.

Hope you stay well, and find happiness in any new hobbies you find in the future Patim.




vokaris
Site Moderator

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:14 am   Reply with quote         


Hey Patim,

You lost, I lost, and 12 others did too. I am not going to complain about my entry losing, because I know it was a major flop. You should not be taking it so hard - it's just a game for crying out loud.

Would you like any sort of analysis what was wrong with the lighting, shadows, perspective and integration in your entry? [edit: marco beat me to it.] And it is not about the hours one spends on an entry, it's about which one sucks less.

Congrats to dbbowling and mason and all the other winners. All the power to you and go all the way to the top!!!




Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:14 am   Reply with quote         


I'm sorry to hear you're leaving. I always thought you were a cool person that actually did their best in their chops. I wanted to say that there was honestly absolutely no friend voting going on in our match. I always tell people that if they can tell which chop is mine, don't vote for it just because we're buds. Even then, that doesn't really happen because I really don't have a ton of friends on this site, only a handful, and they're all pretty honest people that don't friend vote as far as I know. I know there are probably other choppers who get their friends and family to come and vote, so I can understand how you feel about that. I can give you my word that this did not happen in this case.

On to our chops. I also know how you feel about being frustrated about doing the cleanup. I ended up with four different chops, all branching from the cleanup, after at least 20 hours of work, like you. I spent another 8 hours deliberating which one should I submit. I about went mad trying to decide which one I wanted to use, and I knew I was taking a huuuge gamble by submitting just the original clean-up. I know they have a history of not doing superb in the dailies, so I wasn't in any way expecting a win out of this. Like you said, I really didn't have a firm idea of what people would like this year. Preference here always seems to change.
I figured you'd get quite a large portion of the votes since you're pretty much the only one of two people who did an image overlay.

Anyway, I really don't know what else to add to this. I'm still hoping you'll decide not to leave. Sometimes people forget that this site is for learning and not just winning. Please don't hurry off from a loss in a tourney that always has some issues. I mean, I was pretty annoyed at my loss last year, go take a look. I didn't leave, though. Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it.


If you'd like to see my other chops I was having to chose from, here they are. I just went with the cleanup because to me, that is what was the hard part. It took 95% of the time I spent on all these. I knew I had a smaller chance of winning with just the cleanup, but I felt that's what showcased my skill the most.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/mason4300/2007_H2H_Round3_dusk-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b42/mason4300/2007_H2H_Round3_ghosts.jpg




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cherylm329

Location: Everywhere

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:17 am   Reply with quote         


buglover wrote:
Hi Patim,

makes me sad cause U want to leave, but I can't change. I voted for mason not cause of the cleanup. my comment was something like "I never thought I'ld vote for a clean up, but this umbrella is just right there where it should be". I think that's what most people thought.

Any of us had this cleanup idea and nobody did - cause to obviouse. Mason made it and without that umbrella there he wouldn't have won.

Please don't be angree with people. And maybe once a day U'll say - K, let's give it an other try.

cu torsten


Ditto!! I couldn't agree more with Buglovers response to this. I was very disappointed with my losing this round, but it wasn't because of favoritism, or the drama of this site, or my opponents image. It was because my expectations were too high. But, I started to think rationally after the initial disappointment and started to rationalize the situation. I thought my opponent had a good image and I would rather loose to a good image than a piece of crap, not to mention I thought about what I can do to make my images better and what I did wrong in this image to learn from it. Don't think too highly of yourself or the work you do because it's a harsh slap in the face when the reality of it sets in, just because you think you did the best job or the most work doesn't mean everyone will agree with it. You did a good chop and you are a better chopper than some others on this site, so be thankful that you have good skills and went as far as you did in the H2H. Some good choppers lost in the first and second rounds that have better skills than you and I, so consider how far you got as an accomplishment. Okay, way to long here, gotta go, haha. (I am supposed to be working here Smile)




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vokaris
Site Moderator

Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:19 am   Reply with quote         


mason4300 wrote:
I ended up with four different chops, all branching from the cleanup, after at least 20 hours of work, like you. I spent another 8 hours deliberating which one should I submit.
Where do you get all that bloody time, dude? Laughing Laughing Laughing




Post Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:22 am   Reply with quote         


vokaris wrote:
mason4300 wrote:
I ended up with four different chops, all branching from the cleanup, after at least 20 hours of work, like you. I spent another 8 hours deliberating which one should I submit.
Where do you get all that bloody time, dude? Laughing Laughing Laughing


Well, I spent petty much all the time doing the actual clean up. Then, only one chop was a major variation, the others were just smaller things. The smallest change was the umbrella chop, but it ended up being better than the other ones. Guess when you're out of high school and it's on a weekend, you have a lot more time than usual. Smile




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