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Photoshop Contest Forum Index - Brain Storm - How to increase participation - Reply to topic

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PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:14 pm   Reply with quote         


Here's the exact same PINK OBSERVATION DECK appearing twice within a couple months.

9/23/2011
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000542/pink-observation-deck.html?o=votes
11/27/2011
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000607/pink-observation-deck.html?o=votes

In May, we had 5 OLD CARS in 3 weeks. (Granted, the Prowler isn't THAT old, but it has vintage styling, so in terms of chopping, its a minor point)

5/9/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000765/thirty-three-bentley.html?o=votes
5/11/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000774/white-walled-beauty.html?o=votes
5/12/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000775/old-truck.html?o=votes
5/28/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000791/small-mechanics.html?o=votes
5/29/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000786/prowler-christmas.html?o=votes

SIGNS aren't even that interesting for a photoshop site (at least not often, IMO), yet...

1/4/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000646/texaco-sign.html?o=votes
2/14/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000687/air-bag-warning.html?o=votes
2/20/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000693/stop-illusion.html?o=votes
3/21/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000723/speed-limit-30.html?o=votes
4/24/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000757/historic-folly.html?o=votes
6/9/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000803/others-will-be-booted.html?o=votes
6/16/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000810/train-on-side-road.html?o=votes

Like STATUES? Hope you do! They're very popular around here.

7/9/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000833/turtle-statuette.html?o=votes
7/1/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000825/bull-sign.html?o=votes
6/12/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000806/lookout-monkey.html?o=votes
6/6/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000793/temple-guards.html?o=votes
6/3/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000797/crazy-statuettes.html?o=votes
5/31/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000794/sleeping-giant.html?o=votes
5/27/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000790/woodland-wizard.html?o=votes
4/12/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000745/sculpted-bunny.html?o=votes

Even VALVES have appeared 3 times this year.

1/19/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000661/standpipe-disrepair.html?o=votes
5/6/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000769/old-rusty-valve.html?o=votes
6/2/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000796/twisty-gate-valve.html?o=votes

Are you a realtor looking for an OLD COUNTRY BUILDING? Look no further than PSC

1/21/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000663/red-farm.html?o=votes
3/14/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000716/rickety-house.html?o=votes
3/16/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000718/kookaburra-cafe.html?o=votes
4/27/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000760/mountain-chalet.html?o=votes
5/20/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000783/abandoned-home.html?o=votes
6/24/2012
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1000818/the-red-mill.html?o=votes

Has any one else noticed this?

If it were up to me, I wouldn't allow users to submit pictures at all. I would leave that sort of thing to emerge out of the forums organically. The best analogy I can think of is a game show. The contestants don't get to choose the category of questions. If they did, the questions would tend to focus around subjects that are common "strong suits" like pop culture. It's the diversity that keeps a game show interesting.

I don't have all the answers because I've never run a site like this, so I can only relate to observations I've made in other places, but what I have observed is that some things are best left to chance, or some semblance of chance.

A similar problem as PSC is having arises in some online games in which everybody in the game gets to choose the next map to play in. What ends up happening is, if completely left up to the players, the same map comes up over and over and over again. That's the way it is in Max Payne 3, and it turns off a lot of gamers. In Call of Duty, only two maps and a random map are available to be voted on. The key though, is that a map can only be played twice in a row. That ensures that the minority doesn't get overrun by the majority. This keeps the minority interested in playing the game, and leads to greater participation overall.

The difference between how much fun the majority has playing the same map vs a different map is disproportionate to how much LESS fun the minority has to playing the same map over and over. The same goes for PSC. The Advantage members who vote these images in are having a slightly better time, but everybody else is having a significantly worse time.

I hate to get all political sciency about it, but it's one of the reasons why modern constitutional democracies protect minority rights. Sure, the majority could vote the minority into slavery, but the majority would only acquire a fraction of benefit in contrast to the monumental cost suffered by the minority.

Participation has clearly been lacking on this site for a while now, and I can't speak for everybody, but for me, based on my experience and my observation, it can be attributed to the image selection.

You don't have to take my word for it, however. If you sift through the contest archives (you may have to manually input the page value into the address bar), you'll see that there was greater participation back when there was a greater diversity of images. That's not to say user images never made it into the mix, but they were chosen by the admins, sparingly without notice. When a user image did come up, it was like a surprise, manna from heaven.

But like I said, I don't claim to have all the answers. I'm just a loyal fan of the site who has stuck around in spite of PSC's downfall in hopes of better days ahead.

YourTaxesAtWork AKA PotHed
est. 2003




anfa

Location: Geordieland, UK

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:37 pm   Reply with quote         


I've said before that we should bin the voting on source pics. It's the same people doing the voting so we are getting sources that they like. It's obvious it's going to repeat itself over and over again. It's fucking mind numbingly boring if you don't want to do the same chop over and over like some people here do. Laughing
It needs to be random like in the olden days of PSC.




_________________

kittie

Location: Florida

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:43 pm   Reply with quote         


anfa wrote:

It needs to be random like in the olden days of PSC.


How did that work? Was it just the voting that was nixed while members still submitted sources to be chosen randomly?




anfa

Location: Geordieland, UK

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:50 pm   Reply with quote         


kittie wrote:
anfa wrote:

It needs to be random like in the olden days of PSC.


How did that work? Was it just the voting that was nixed while members still submitted sources to be chosen randomly?

Nope. We didn't submit any sources. We just got a random pic every day. I still think people should be able to submit them. Just take away the voting thing so people don't keep picking the same type of images.

Anyway, I blame Sean! Laughing




_________________

kittie

Location: Florida

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:58 pm   Reply with quote         


LOL! Laughing Laughing Laughing

anfa wrote:
I still think people should be able to submit them. Just take away the voting thing so people don't keep picking the same type of images.


Sounds like a viable solution to me.. I enjoy throwing in a few source pics once in a while.




TheShaman

Location: Peaksville, Southeast of Disorder

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:23 pm   Reply with quote         




Laughing I just cater to the peoplz! Laughing

Today is National Tequila day!
http://www.longislandpress.com/2012/07/24/national-tequila-day-2012/
so...
DRINK UP! drunken




_________________
T-shirt Designs: http://www.cafepress.com/TheShaman
Help fight breast cancer by becoming an enabler: http://www.cafepress.com/Pinkaholics
Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:11 pm   Reply with quote         


anfa wrote:
kittie wrote:
anfa wrote:

It needs to be random like in the olden days of PSC.


How did that work? Was it just the voting that was nixed while members still submitted sources to be chosen randomly?

Nope. We didn't submit any sources. We just got a random pic every day. I still think people should be able to submit them. Just take away the voting thing so people don't keep picking the same type of images.

Anyway, I blame Sean! Laughing

Where did the random pictures come from in the olden days? That seems like an issue with going away from user submitted sources. Without it, where do you get images of the necessary quality for daily contests, and who gathers them? Somewhere in that process it can't be very random. I think just eliminating the voting, like you said, might help a bit. I have a hard time remembering to vote on the source images.




kinetic_be

Location: Belgium

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:12 pm   Reply with quote         


Like I said before, I don't think this is the main reason why there is so little participation.
I mean, a good graphic artist, bends everything to their own. They build a house from a rock and a new car from a wrecked car..
I think the main reason for lack of competitors, is the 'aww-factor'. How long has it been that you checked out a contest and said 'WoW' at least 5 times?
We lack good choppers... We got a few, but we got less than 10% of what we used to have here.
There are those who chop for fun, and there are those who chop on a more serious level and take the votes and feedback more serious as it tells them if what they make is liked or not.

This site, besides the contests, has nothing much to do anymore with Photoshop.
I mean, there is little to no space for discussion about art. Feedback and critique is often waved away or ignored. The tutorials are as old as the website and barely updated and the forum are full of games and chit-chat. So why would a good graphic designer sign up here? What's there for a challenge? I'm not saying nobody signs up here, but the number of newcomers is too small, especially highly experienced designers.

So I would be very interested in finding ways to attract graphical designers.
I also tend to believe it wouldn't hurt to check out the competition.
Have you ever checked out Worth1000? I bet most of you have. When you see the images there, you go like WOW!! Why is that? Because the site is full of skilled choppers. Some in a professional way, but most of them are just people who like to play around in Photoshop. How come the website is still attracting new designers? Because the best designers are there. People always want to be around the best, and that's what this place is missing right now. Good, skilled and most of all ACTIVE choppers.

Pro's like Rey, Claf, Vokaris, Bogonet, Anfa, BC, Sjitske, and so on.. (sorry if I didn't mention your name, there's a huge numbers of Pro's in the galleries... just names that popped up)
Put at least 10 of them in a daily contest and you got a huge competition going in less than a month. If 10 pro's participate, more and more people will want to participate. It stimulates, it wants you to be better. You will see polished, skillfully executed entries with good ideas and you know that if you want to be in the top 10 in a contest, you just need to push a little extra. And that's exactly what makes you a better chopper.

So how do you get more pro's participating? I don't know Smile

I think more 'activity' in organising would be step number 1
I mean, 1 H2H each year is a little bit low. Why not having 2 at least?
Reunion contests... Why only reunion contests? There's so much more things to organise.
For example: Provide, once a month, a contest with a black&white photo which everyone needs to color.
Or create individual H2H's where people can vote (if they want to).
I remember this site used to have a individual challenge oppurtunity. Why is that taken away? It would be great to challenge someone and have the people vote for which is best in H2H...
Update the tutorials... Let Photoshopcontest.com turn around Photoshop and learning Photoshop.. The site needs to breath Photoshop.
25 votes? We barely got 20 competitors in every contest. What the heck do I need 25 votes for?
Adjust it automaticly to the amount of participants. People are free to do what they want with their votes, but a lot of people just vote for everything and everyone. Since a vote from a sharp eye counts as much as a vote from a friendly-voter, I think it needs to be polished aswell.



Ohwell.. Many ideas, but in the end it's just ideas. I could go on about this forever. I think our boss is not really interested in Photoshop, therefor, not many good ideas are coming from his side.
How about our moderators? I'm sure they got work to do here, but they don't even follow the website's F.A.Q., so what's the point of being a mod then?

Reorganisation Twisted Evil




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:25 pm   Reply with quote         


I definitely agree about the available votes. It's always a little bit disappointing to get a vote, only to see the person voted for literally every entry. One factor that is beyond anyone's control here is available time. With my schedule, I pretty much have to start working on something as soon as I get home from work, and it's the only thing I do with my free time that night. I would like to see some unique contests in addition to the daily contests more frequently. I'm doing what I can. I brought a couple more members here and gave them advantage memberships. Regarding the lack of F.A.Q. enforcement, could you be referring to a very recent winning entry? I agree that there seems to be a lack of enforcement in that situation.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:29 pm   Reply with quote         


kinetic_be wrote:
Like I said before, I don't think this is the main reason why there is so little participation.
I mean, a good graphic artist, bends everything to their own. They build a house from a rock and a new car from a wrecked car..
I think the main reason for lack of competitors, is the 'aww-factor'. How long has it been that you checked out a contest and said 'WoW' at least 5 times?
We lack good choppers... We got a few, but we got less than 10% of what we used to have here.
There are those who chop for fun, and there are those who chop on a more serious level and take the votes and feedback more serious as it tells them if what they make is liked or not.


So, lack of participation is caused by good choppers no longer participate? Your argument is invalid.




kinetic_be

Location: Belgium

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:33 pm   Reply with quote         


I wrote a lot more than that. If you manage to read trough the end, you'll get my point Smile

PotHed wrote:
kinetic_be wrote:
Like I said before, I don't think this is the main reason why there is so little participation.
I mean, a good graphic artist, bends everything to their own. They build a house from a rock and a new car from a wrecked car..
I think the main reason for lack of competitors, is the 'aww-factor'. How long has it been that you checked out a contest and said 'WoW' at least 5 times?
We lack good choppers... We got a few, but we got less than 10% of what we used to have here.
There are those who chop for fun, and there are those who chop on a more serious level and take the votes and feedback more serious as it tells them if what they make is liked or not.


So, lack of participation is caused by good choppers no longer participate? Your argument is invalid.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:36 pm   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:
I definitely agree about the available votes. It's always a little bit disappointing to get a vote, only to see the person voted for literally every entry. One factor that is beyond anyone's control here is available time. With my schedule, I pretty much have to start working on something as soon as I get home from work, and it's the only thing I do with my free time that night. I would like to see some unique contests in addition to the daily contests more frequently. I'm doing what I can. I brought a couple more members here and gave them advantage memberships. Regarding the lack of F.A.Q. enforcement, could you be referring to a very recent winning entry? I agree that there seems to be a lack of enforcement in that situation.

Anybody can start a new, unique contest in the forums. PSC's troubles lay at the heart of the site. H2H and other contests have always been lacking in participation because they're designed for the more hardcore choppers. It should be expected that the special contests would not garner the same level of interest as the main contest, so expanding on them would only attract a fraction of people who are already here. That wouldn't solve the issue of the roughly 50% drop in contributions to the main contest.

I again advise anyone skeptical of my analysis to go back and view the quality of source images this site used to have. It's like night and day.




kinetic_be

Location: Belgium

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:39 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
I again advise anyone skeptical of my analysis to go back and view the quality of source images this site used to have. It's like night and day.


I guess we both have different opinions then, which is ok.
Neither of us has a pact on the truth, do we? Smile
But either we have different opinions, I think it's good you brought up this topic. This needs to be discussed in some matter. I really would like to see PSC back where it was in a few years.




kittie

Location: Florida

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:40 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:

H2H and other contests have always been lacking in participation because they're designed for the more hardcore choppers. It should be expected that the special contests would not garner the same level of interest as the main contest, so expanding on them would only attract a fraction of people who are already here.


I don't know about everyone else, but it sure seems to me that the H2H has been the most booming time for PSC for the last few years. Reunion as well. I don't know what you're talking about... people come back for them all the time.




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:40 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
Werdnaibor wrote:
I definitely agree about the available votes. It's always a little bit disappointing to get a vote, only to see the person voted for literally every entry. One factor that is beyond anyone's control here is available time. With my schedule, I pretty much have to start working on something as soon as I get home from work, and it's the only thing I do with my free time that night. I would like to see some unique contests in addition to the daily contests more frequently. I'm doing what I can. I brought a couple more members here and gave them advantage memberships. Regarding the lack of F.A.Q. enforcement, could you be referring to a very recent winning entry? I agree that there seems to be a lack of enforcement in that situation.

Anybody can start a new, unique contest in the forums. PSC's troubles lay at the heart of the site. H2H and other contests have always been lacking in participation because they're designed for the more hardcore choppers. It should be expected that the special contests would not garner the same level of interest as the main contest, so expanding on them would only attract a fraction of people who are already here. That wouldn't solve the issue of the roughly 50% drop in contributions to the main contest.

I again advise anyone skeptical of my analysis to go back and view the quality of source images this site used to have. It's like night and day.

That may be, but where do the better source images come from?




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