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Photoshop Contest Forum Index - Brain Storm - How to increase participation - Reply to topic

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PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:55 pm   Reply with quote         


TheShaman wrote:
PotHed. I said it in the other bunny thread...
I think its good that you got this out in the open... Do I think its the main reason this site is going downhill? No.


I think most of the big choppers left for several reasons...
Major ones being not enough time to fully participate due to real life/work and
the big one... too much bitching/bickering all the effing time...

Me? I'm not a top chopper, but I try to participate in the dailies (when I've got the time)... But between coaching 2 Soccer teams, Being Co-Leader for my Sons Cubscout pack and WORK not to mention normal family time... It doesn't leave me with that much time to chop every day like I used to.

Well sure, some people are going to leave because they don't have the time, but that should be balanced by new people coming in, if not tipped in favor of newcomers.

Quote:
as for your complaint about seeing the same types of sources over and over... I tend to agree BUT

Either A) contact me or Kittie or Eve or SOMEONE and we'll submit your photos you'd like to see done...
OR
B) SAY what type of photos you'd like to see as source photos and allow the fine advantage members of this site to try to realize those for you...

These are not solutions. These only contribute to what I say is the problem. It's almost as if you didn't read my analysis and are only trying to satisfy me by catering to a few pictures I might want to see. No thanks, you're simply missing the point.

Quote:
Most of us do own good high quality cameras.... We should be able to provide good quality sources for the masses to chop.

That's what PSC has been trying to do, and it's been failing. When people walk out their door and try to find something interesting, they're inevitably going to choose the same things that everybody else would choose when they walk out their door. Bridges, benches, street signs, cars, stuff like that.

If your solution to the problem is to double-down on it, then I'm afraid I can't say I agree with you.

Quote:
Hell, when I can't find a good outside source, the first thing I do is have someone pose for me, or I set up my own props...

... Don't see the point in saying this.

Quote:
Finally option C) STFUAC what's given to you... This place goes in cycles... Yeah, there aren't 50 entries each and every day... but those days are gone, I doubt anything will ever bring back that type of competition again... not saying PSC shouldn't strive for it... just saying LIFE gets in the way... bitching about it, isn't going to bring it back... participating and submitting good quality/imaginative entries in the contests, will force other people to up their game as well... Thus bringing the level of competition UP, thus bringing in more people... more competition... a vicious cycle in the right direction...


Again, the "well if more people would chop, more people would come!" argument is invalid. If it made any sense, we'd have never seen the drop off to begin with. Life didn't "get in the way" for everybody all at once.

Downward is not a cycle. It's downward. It's been going downward for years and years with no up-swings.

And I'm not just "bitching about it," dick. I offered an analysis of the problem and a simple solution.

If you think my analysis was wrong, tell me why.

... Tell me I'm just bitching.... Piss off.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm   Reply with quote         


If anybody wishes to understand what I mean by people not actually responding my my analysis...

Me: I think X is the problem, and here's why.

You: I don't agree. I think Y is the real problem.

... is not a proper response.

It should be "X is not the problem, here's why."

If you find error in my argument, tell me what the error is.




Synthvet

Location: Oregon

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:05 pm   Reply with quote         


atleast if they're going to run adds here......then run good ones......... Laughing Laughing Laughing





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kittie

Location: Florida

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:06 pm   Reply with quote         


You keep throwing out the personal insults when someone says something you don't like.

I think YOU should piss off... Loyal follower of PSC my ass... you've chopped less in your 9 years of being here than many do in one. I don't get why feel you should come in here and tell us why this place is full of shit and nag at us about something that us as individuals CAN'T FIX.

We've tried offering helpful solutions and you turn around and tell us how ridiculous WE'RE being. The ones who actually contribute! Ha!
We can't do anything about the admins or how they choose to run the site.

If you don't want solutions from US, then PM PSCBuzz. He can help you with what you want, we can't.

I've tried to be rational about this, but when I've pointed out anything that challenges your view my comments have been ignored just for you to lash out at others for doing the same thing.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:27 pm   Reply with quote         


kittie wrote:
You keep throwing out the personal insults when someone says something you don't like.

I think YOU should piss off... Loyal follower of PSC my ass... you've chopped less in your 9 years of being here than many do in one. I don't get why feel you should come in here and tell us why this place is full of shit and nag at us about something that us as individuals CAN'T FIX.

We've tried offering helpful solutions and you turn around and tell us how ridiculous WE'RE being. The ones who actually contribute! Ha!
We can't do anything about the admins or how they choose to run the site.

If you don't want solutions from US, then PM PSCBuzz. He can help you with what you want, we can't.

I've tried to be rational about this, but when I've pointed out anything that challenges your view my comments have been ignored just for you to lash out at others for doing the same thing.

My lack of participation is exactly what I'm addressing. I'm saying that this is why I stopped playing the game, so it's a little strange that you would disqualify my statements because I don't participate enough.

I've asked for input on my analysis, and haven't gotten any reasonable responses from those who disagree. Just "Nope" and then what they think might be the problem. I don't mind if people have their own take on the problem, but if they are going to come into my thread and completely ignore everything I've said, why should I show them any respect?

And then to tell me I'm just bitching? No. My reaction was appropriate, but thanks for trying to get us to play nice. Your input has been noted. Now run along.




TheShaman

Location: Peaksville, Southeast of Disorder

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:46 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed,
I get it
Quote:
If it were up to me, I wouldn't allow users to submit pictures at all. I would leave that sort of thing to emerge out of the forums organically.


I've been here since 2005. 2 years less than you... BUT

Since I've joined, I've always been able to submit photos for PSC for chopping as an advantage member.

You think PSC magically came up with source pictures for us to chop?
Provided ALL sources for us to chop for the 365 days of chopping bliss?
They waived their magic source wand and *POOF* they magically appeared?
NO. the fucking members submitted the majority of them for PSC to use.
Yes, every once in a while a source picture came from morguefile... or other type free source places, but not ALL of them came from the PSC website owner... They come from us.. the end user. Back then we didn't vote on them. We just submitted them, and they were either accepted or rejected.

This was one of my first submitted and accepted source pictures
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1619/wall-rose.html
02/09/2006 71 entries... It doesn't have my name on 'submitted by' but it is my submission...

heres another of mine.. this one has my name on it from Sept of 2006
62 entries and it happened to be a prize contest
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1840/silver-on-silver.html?l=&o=votes

point is, PSC has always allowed us to submit source pictures... They just started putting WHO submitted some time late 2006. Where do you think they get the majority of them? They certianly aren't going to pay for us to chop some random pictures 365 days a year...

Only difference is now WE as choppers actually get to vote what we want to chop from the approved stock of submissions. So take that away, and everyone's gonna come running back cause PSC picks from the photos we've submitted? Hardly.

Rather, PSC would just randomly post ALL the pictures that we've submitted and they've approved.
Thus... Nothing changes.

I'm done with this game now... I like you Hed. You seem genuine and are trying to 'help' but I think you're confused as to how this place 'works' and why people actually leave.

Its all subjective!
Cheers.




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kittie

Location: Florida

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47 pm   Reply with quote         


I guess people just thought it was a discussion on how to help the site, and not a thread about what you want, exactly how you want it.

I will run along now, because there's nothing to be fixed in that manner.




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:49 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
kittie wrote:
You keep throwing out the personal insults when someone says something you don't like.

I think YOU should piss off... Loyal follower of PSC my ass... you've chopped less in your 9 years of being here than many do in one. I don't get why feel you should come in here and tell us why this place is full of shit and nag at us about something that us as individuals CAN'T FIX.

We've tried offering helpful solutions and you turn around and tell us how ridiculous WE'RE being. The ones who actually contribute! Ha!
We can't do anything about the admins or how they choose to run the site.

If you don't want solutions from US, then PM PSCBuzz. He can help you with what you want, we can't.

I've tried to be rational about this, but when I've pointed out anything that challenges your view my comments have been ignored just for you to lash out at others for doing the same thing.

My lack of participation is exactly what I'm addressing. I'm saying that this is why I stopped playing the game, so it's a little strange that you would disqualify my statements because I don't participate enough.

I've asked for input on my analysis, and haven't gotten any reasonable responses from those who disagree. Just "Nope" and then what they think might be the problem. I don't mind if people have their own take on the problem, but if they are going to come into my thread and completely ignore everything I've said, why should I show them any respect?

And then to tell me I'm just bitching? No. My reaction was appropriate, but thanks for trying to get us to play nice. Your input has been noted. Now run along.

After looking at your original list of images again, I realize it's not even that bad. Considering there are images daily, three valves this year is not ridiculous. That's 3 valves in somewhere around 200 images. 5 old style cars out of 21 contests, a bit excessive, but nothing to require a major overhaul of the site.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:21 pm   Reply with quote         


TheShaman wrote:
PotHed,
I get it
Quote:
If it were up to me, I wouldn't allow users to submit pictures at all. I would leave that sort of thing to emerge out of the forums organically.


I've been here since 2005. 2 years less than you... BUT

Since I've joined, I've always been able to submit photos for PSC for chopping as an advantage member.

You think PSC magically came up with source pictures for us to chop?
Provided ALL sources for us to chop for the 365 days of chopping bliss?
They waived their magic source wand and *POOF* they magically appeared?
NO. the fucking members submitted the majority of them for PSC to use.
Yes, every once in a while a source picture came from morguefile... or other type free source places, but not ALL of them came from the PSC website...

so your theory is... everyone left because PSC gave us (THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY CHOP) the privilege to choose what we want to chop?

If that's the case... you're delusional.

This was one of my first submitted and accepted source pictures
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1619/wall-rose.html
02/09/2006 71 entries... It doesn't have my name on 'submitted by' but it is my submission...

heres another of mine.. this one has my name on it from Sept of 2006
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1840/silver-on-silver.html
62 entries and it happened to be a prize contest
http://photoshopcontest.com/photoshop-contest/1840/silver-on-silver.html?l=&o=votes

point is, PSC has always allowed us to submit source pictures... They just started putting WHO submitted some time late 2006. Where do you think they get the majority of them? They certianly aren't going to pay for us to chop some random pictures 365 days a year...

I have already stated that I'm fine with user-submitted pictures. It's not how I would do it, but I'm okay with it. The issue is voting on the pictures that will be used.

Quote:
Only difference is now WE as choppers actually get to vote what we want to chop from the approved stock of submissions. So take that away, and everyone's gonna come running back cause PSC picks from the photos we've submitted? Hardly.

Offering a reason for disagreement would be appreciated. I gave a reasons for my argument, but no one who disagrees has offered a reason for their disagreement.

Quote:
Rather, PSC would just randomly post ALL the pictures that we've submitted and they've approved.
Thus... Nothing changes.

It would change. It would change from being user-voted to random. That's a change. Having an admin available to review the images and say "we've had too many cars recently" would help.

Quote:
I'm done with this game now... I like you Hed. You seem genuine and are trying to 'help' but I think you're confused as to how this place 'works' and why people actually leave.

I've seen it happen other places as well. I gave my examples, but as of yet no one has cared to address any of them. Tell me why you think I'm confused. Tell me what I've gotten wrong about how this place works.

It will be impossible to take back control because people are attached to the idea that choice must always be a good thing. I have shown why it is not, and the utter lack of a coherent responses is just making me bitter towards the members of the site.

I didn't make this thread to be liked. I knew it would put people into a defensive position to protect their precious ability to vote on images. I want my arguments to be judged on their merits. Being liked is not my objective. I'll save that for other conversations.

So don't bother liking me.

I'm an asshole.

I know it. You know it.

Kittie is secretly turned on by it.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:02 am   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:
After looking at your original list of images again, I realize it's not even that bad. Considering there are images daily, three valves this year is not ridiculous. That's 3 valves in somewhere around 200 images. 5 old style cars out of 21 contests, a bit excessive, but nothing to require a major overhaul of the site.


That's why I included a lot of different examples. It isn't that one thing is showing up a lot, it's that over the course of time, we only get a new image about half the time. The rest of the time we're just getting another house, another bridge, another car, or another flower, etc. Also note that I didn't include all examples. There are others.

Your 200 number is a bit off. It was 135 days. That's one valve per 45 days. To me that seems like a lot of valves.

A sign every 17 days.

A statue every 11 days.

An old house every 25 days.

By comparison, Alec Baldwin has made more appearances on Saturday Night Live than any other actor. On average, about once every 65 episodes.




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:38 am   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
Werdnaibor wrote:
After looking at your original list of images again, I realize it's not even that bad. Considering there are images daily, three valves this year is not ridiculous. That's 3 valves in somewhere around 200 images. 5 old style cars out of 21 contests, a bit excessive, but nothing to require a major overhaul of the site.


That's why I included a lot of different examples. It isn't that one thing is showing up a lot, it's that over the course of time, we only get a new image about half the time. The rest of the time we're just getting another house, another bridge, another car, or another flower, etc. Also note that I didn't include all examples. There are others.

Your 200 number is a bit off. It was 135 days. That's one valve per 45 days. To me that seems like a lot of valves.

A sign every 17 days.

A statue every 11 days.

An old house every 25 days.

By comparison, Alec Baldwin has made more appearances on Saturday Night Live than any other actor. On average, about once every 65 episodes.

You're talking about this year. I'm considering the days from the beginning to now. Roughly 200.




annajon

Location: DEAD THREAD DUMPINGGROUND NEAR YOU

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:34 am   Reply with quote         


So.................................

To recap.....................

Create a forum called Brain Storm, submit a text called "HOW TO INCREASE PATICIPATION" with bunch of links to images that span a few years and...................

Get 6 pages of written text, that say 85 times the same over and over again.


Now, explain to me how that is different from entering in a competition. Did all the writers in this forum participate in the competitions over the past couple of weeks, more then one time?

Last I saw it was still called Photoshop Contest, not WORD




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:42 am   Reply with quote         


annajon wrote:
So.................................

To recap.....................

Create a forum called Brain Storm, submit a text called "HOW TO INCREASE PATICIPATION" with bunch of links to images that span a few years and...................

Get 6 pages of written text, that say 85 times the same over and over again.


Now, explain to me how that is different from entering in a competition. Did all the writers in this forum participate in the competitions over the past couple of weeks, more then one time?

Last I saw it was still called Photoshop Contest, not WORD

I did! I did! What do I get?




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:52 am   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:

You're talking about this year. I'm considering the days from the beginning to now. Roughly 200.

Well I guess the valve was a bad example that I personally found a little odd.




Zoeon

Location: Belgium

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:19 am   Reply with quote         


I think sources has nothing to do with your point.
Why dont you just ask for example:
Govan
gsenthil
fritzvondefranz
Marcoballistic
pollyO
geronsic
bicbuck
carlC
Scrumpy
Sjitske
nancers
heinlein
mellowdesign
dead man
AGL
Caprix3
drauger
lancoma
Zorro13
mihai_myxz
Serps
shanomoo
Tarmac
Sirenca
Goat1981
ryokha
netwel
martilic
cinigar77

etc etc etc
why they dont participate anymore, then you have your answer on this question.




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