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Photoshop Contest Forum Index - Brain Storm - How to increase participation - Reply to topic

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Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:03 pm   Reply with quote         


I believe I said it was a bit excessive, but not a major issue. It's a valid criticism, because constant identical maps does not come close to relating to similar sources that come up with a fairly low frequency. I believe I also identified that period as a fluke, and an insignificant fraction of the year. People quitting the game due to that map issue does not indicate that people would leave here due to the source images.

The crappy players don't always do well on those maps, there's just a chance they will. They also just like getting more kills, even though they die close to twenty times. I already equated switching lobbies to waiting for the next source in this thread. There are so many sources that come up between your supposed repetitious sources that do not fit in your lack of variety theory.

You still have not responded to my criticism of you lunch analogy. And while we're on the topic of you ignoring things, what do you think of Claf providing some actual insight into why some top choppers aren't participating?

Edit: I'm off to work now, so don't take a massive delay in response from me as a lack of an answer.




kittie

Location: Florida

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:07 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
kittie wrote:
I did agree that voting could be nixed at first.

However, once the idea that we, as the ones submitting the sources, and the ones voting, could agree to work for a higher variation together as a site, I decided that I'm more in favor of giving this a try as it's something that we can actually fix.

If the site owner decided to supply source images, I'd be fine with that.
If he decided to take away voting, I'd be fine with that. I'm not arguing that your points are invalid.

But they aren't around. We work with what we have and I'm much more in favor of arguing the options we HAVE vs. the ones we dream about.

A lot of people come here for the community, and I think that if we worked on a source project together it could increase participation and spirits as a whole vs. handing it all to the main man and telling him to deal with it and causing a rift between what community there is left.

If you think the members of the site can work towards variety, great. I agree that at least from a practical standpoint, because "the main man" probably isn't paying attention to this 300+ post thread, then doing it ourselves is probably a decent alternative. I just don't think it's a long-term solution. I think the topic will die (eventually, dog-willing) and people will fall back into the normal routine.


You're right, it'll probably eventually die down. That's why we need people (maybe even like you Wink ) to tell us you're getting bored of it. Even with stock sources there's bound to be some accidental repetition and people that don't like what's coming out of it.
At least this way, in our hands, we can say "man, I'd like to see *example*" and make it happen.

There's a member here that used to do photowalks. It's not necessarily for sources, but it made people see things creatively and take some interesting photos. I've pm'd him to see if he wanted to host another one.

If we can get people intentionally looking for things completely out of the ordinary, hopefully it will start showing. Unfortunately it won't likely be for a while as I'm sure there are plenty of old sources still in queue.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:30 pm   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:
I believe I said it was a bit excessive, but not a major issue. It's a valid criticism, because constant identical maps does not come close to relating to similar sources that come up with a fairly low frequency. I believe I also identified that period as a fluke, and an insignificant fraction of the year. People quitting the game due to that map issue does not indicate that people would leave here due to the source images.

You agreed it was excessive. The analogy works just fine.

Quote:
The crappy players don't always do well on those maps, there's just a chance they will. They also just like getting more kills, even though they die close to twenty times.

And there's a better chance that a crappy chopper will do well with an easy source. What's your point again?

Quote:
You still have not responded to my criticism of you lunch analogy.

I have. Did you or did you not say that I only made one connection when in fact I had made several? You're not an honest broker.


Quote:
And while we're on the topic of you ignoring things, what do you think of Claf providing some actual insight into why some top choppers aren't participating?

I believe you've been present for enough of this conversation to know how I feel about what he said as it was a subject that had already been brought up before. Did I not already respond to the fact that people might say they just don't have the time, when in fact that may not reflect the reasons accurately? That it may be that since this site became boring, the other things in their life seemed more interesting by comparison? Did I not also state several times that the drop-off due to lack-of-time ought to be offset by the pick-up of newcomers and people who have found more time?

Have I not addressed this issue already, several times? And yet you accuse me of ignoring it?

I will hold you down and shit directly into your mouth if you continue to be this dishonest.




TheShaman

Location: Peaksville, Southeast of Disorder

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:37 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
]
Do you think I'm ashamed of working at Jack in the Box? It's close by and they let me pick my own hours, and since they're open 24 hours, that allows me some flexibility. I've held more honorable jobs than you, and I've held waaaaaay cooler jobs than you. Hell, I just got offered a job working on season 4 of Swamp People, but I turned it down because can't travel to Louisiana right now. As soon as I'm out of school, I'll be back at it.

What are you doing that's so great again?

Saved many lives lately?

Seen your name in many movie credits lately?

Turned down jobs on TV shows lately?


Nope. and good for you. You sound so traveled and superior in every way to my pitiful life.
So you turn down jobs? to work for a fast food place part time so you can go to school?
What are you studying to be, that your previous experience shouldn't already land you an awesome job?

BTW: I'm a pre-press supervisor at a small print shop. I don't claim fame or intellectual superiority. I'm not in it for the money... I do this because the hours are awesome 6-3 M-Th and 6-12 on Fridays with every weekend off... I do this so that I can do the thing I love the most.. Make enough to support my family and spend as much time with my kids as possible.




_________________
T-shirt Designs: http://www.cafepress.com/TheShaman
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PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:41 pm   Reply with quote         


kittie wrote:

If we can get people intentionally looking for things completely out of the ordinary, hopefully it will start showing. Unfortunately it won't likely be for a while as I'm sure there are plenty of old sources still in queue.

Ordinary is actually just fine. I nice close-up of a thumb tack, or a view of the inside of a (clean) toilet. Part of the problem of the repetitive sources is that peoples' cameras are drawn to the same "out of the ordinary" things as everyone else.

That's the reason I would like to move to a stock photo system, because professional photographers have honed their eye in such a way that their attention is captured by ordinary items as well.




kittie

Location: Florida

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:58 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
kittie wrote:

If we can get people intentionally looking for things completely out of the ordinary, hopefully it will start showing. Unfortunately it won't likely be for a while as I'm sure there are plenty of old sources still in queue.

Ordinary is actually just fine. I nice close-up of a thumb tack, or a view of the inside of a (clean) toilet. Part of the problem of the repetitive sources is that peoples' cameras are drawn to the same "out of the ordinary" things as everyone else.

That's the reason I would like to move to a stock photo system, because professional photographers have honed their eye in such a way that their attention is captured by ordinary items as well.


When I said "out of the ordinary", I meant images we don't see already. Not extraordinary items.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:10 pm   Reply with quote         


TheShaman wrote:
Nope. and good for you. You sound so traveled and superior in every way to my pitiful life.
So you turn down jobs? to work for a fast food place part time so you can go to school?

Yep.
Quote:
What are you studying to be, that your previous experience shouldn't already land you an awesome job?

I'm studying for the value of the education itself. Ideally, I would like to travel back to Iraq or Afghanistan with a documentary film crew. I've been there before, I know the ropes, and I have experience in production and post-production. It sucked that I had to turn down the Swamp People gig because that would have given me pre-production experience, but another opportunity will come around one day.

Quote:
BTW: I'm a pre-press supervisor at a small print shop. I don't claim fame or intellectual superiority. I'm not in it for the money... I do this because the hours are awesome 6-3 M-Th and 6-12 on Fridays with every weekend off... I do this so that I can do the thing I love the most.. Make enough to support my family and spend as much time with my kids as possible.

I can't say I love working at Jack in the Box, but you know as well as I do there are many factors that go into choosing a job. I'm proud of doing my job right. I'm proud of the responsibilities the management is giving me given how recently I began working there. I'm proud that I show up to work, put in my hours and earn my paycheck.

So when I attack you for saying stupid things and you try to get me back by laughing at my job, I'm fine with that. My job does suck. But I've also put in the hours necessary to learn more about analytic techniques, to learn more about what makes a good analogy vs a bad analogy, what constitutes a substantive disagreement vs and wordy "nuh-uh!" It doesn't mean my arguments are valid just because I'm saying them. It just means that if I tell you you haven't actually explained your disagreement, you ought to consider what I'm telling you. I don't care if I'm wrong, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let anybody off the hook for intellectually dishonest and vapid arguments.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:11 pm   Reply with quote         


kittie wrote:

When I said "out of the ordinary", I meant images we don't see already. Not extraordinary items.

Gotcha. Smile




kittie

Location: Florida

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:19 pm   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
kittie wrote:

When I said "out of the ordinary", I meant images we don't see already. Not extraordinary items.

Gotcha. Smile


I was also considering speaking with a mod about working with me to start an advantage AND non-advantage source collection thread.The prize would be "Not having repetitive sources for a while." Laughing

My idea could use work though before going into effect.
Basically, I'd ask everyone to submit one image to me through email at a time with the proper source specifications, and I'd make a much smaller (unchoppably small) version of it to post here, just to give people an idea of what it is.
After an image of a certain item is posted (such as a thumbtack) no other thumbtacks will be accepted.
Quality would be monitored of course.
At the end of say, a week... two weeks, whatever, they'd all be dumped into the source queue. If people wanted their name on it we could just edit a "source by *name*" into an unimportant part of the image.

It'd just give some non-paying members a chance to share if they wanted and reduce the repetition.
It's not necessarily a long run fix, but I don't see why we couldn't do something like this once every few months.

This way we'd still be voting, but it will already be on items that can't be repeated.

Thoughts? critique?




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:49 pm   Reply with quote         


Break time. Here we go.

You are latching onto one point and ignoring the others. Something you do often.

I provided more reasons for why the lunch analogy is a steaming pile of shit. You ignored those.

I mocked that argument twice already. It completely invalidates your original argument. If you discard people's answers to the question of why they stopped chopping, you must discard your own. You must also discard the reasoning behind the people quitting the game, since people are incapable of self reflection. You are left with nothing at that point. You can't ignore people's answers and use your own as the cornerstone of your argument. This shows your incredible arrogance, since you think you are the only person capable of stating why you're not chopping, and you even think you can answer for other people who provided different reasoning. It's an absurd argument, and you can't apply it to only other people.




anfa

Location: Geordieland, UK

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:26 pm   Reply with quote         


Hey Werdnaibor. You've only been at PSC since May yet you are going on like you own the place. I don't mean to be nasty but you know fuck all about this place and the many members that used to chop here.




_________________

charliesou

Location: Independent Scotland

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:02 pm   Reply with quote         




Ah canna change the laws o' physics cap'n...
Hug
thread




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:12 pm   Reply with quote         


anfa wrote:
Hey Werdnaibor. You've only been at PSC since May yet you are going on like you own the place. I don't mean to be nasty but you know fuck all about this place and the many members that used to chop here.

I don't need to have been here to argue against flawed arguments.




anfa

Location: Geordieland, UK

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:31 pm   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:
anfa wrote:
Hey Werdnaibor. You've only been at PSC since May yet you are going on like you own the place. I don't mean to be nasty but you know fuck all about this place and the many members that used to chop here.

I don't need to have been here to argue against flawed arguments.

*facepalm*




_________________

PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:36 pm   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:
Break time. Here we go.

You are latching onto one point and ignoring the others. Something you do often.

I provided more reasons for why the lunch analogy is a steaming pile of shit. You ignored those.

I mocked that argument twice already. It completely invalidates your original argument. If you discard people's answers to the question of why they stopped chopping, you must discard your own. You must also discard the reasoning behind the people quitting the game, since people are incapable of self reflection. You are left with nothing at that point. You can't ignore people's answers and use your own as the cornerstone of your argument. This shows your incredible arrogance, since you think you are the only person capable of stating why you're not chopping, and you even think you can answer for other people who provided different reasoning. It's an absurd argument, and you can't apply it to only other people.

Hold on, you provided those "reasons" only after I called you out for telling me that I only made one connection? Yes or no?

I've stopped addressing your "reasons" because you're a troll.




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