just want to point this out:
Pluralis Majestatis

In truth, I'm inclined to agree on some points with Marx, although not his methods of saying it. Not that I'm calling people stupid for believeing in the Bible, but I do tend to see many of the explanations offered as rather convoluted rationalizations. HandTool, it's a nice answer on the singular/plural issue: it falls perfectly in line with Christian theology and does well explaining a rather troublesome passage. However, you see other references to other gods when God says He is a jealous God. If the plural refers only to Jesus, and if Jesus is to be praised, then of whom is God to be jealous?

I too find it very difficult to believe that a benevolent Creator would condone slavery and murder. This is part of why I have to believe that the Bible is not God's perfect Word, but rather the writings of man.

Furthermore, there are far too many archetypal similarities between, Jesus and Moses and the non-Judeo-Christian deities and heroes for me to accept them as mere co-incidence.

Oh, and Marx? Play nice. I could use you on my debating team!

LOL, Grefix. A modern English grammatical quirk hardly explains a 3000 year-old Aramaic text, but I'm still compelled therefore to qoute United States Navy Admiral Hyman G. Rickover to the Lord God and say "Three groups are permitted that usage: pregnant women, royalty, and schizophrenics. Which one are you?"

I agree the explanation of Pluralis Majestatis is insufficient - it would not explain why God uses the singular and plural in the same passage. Although Elohim can be either plural or singular and so can refer to God, many gods or to powerful/influential spirits or men. Context usually makes it clear.

Having said that, if "pregnant women, royalty, and schizophrenics" are entitled to use the "royal we", why shouldn't the Creator of everything be entitled to if he chooses?

As for the verses saying God is a jealous god, (indicating he will not tolerate worship of other deities) that doesn't mean they really do exist. Believing in any god doesn't in itself mean it is real - as an atheist will only too readily tell you! There are many things and beings that men have set up as "gods" for themselves, from trees and stones to statues to other men and so on. God is pointing out that substituting these inferior things - putting the created in place of the Creator - in the heart and mind is not acceptable.

Marx- one moment you feign ignorance of the Holy trinity and
the next you quote Psalms.
You are not discussing, you are taking pot shots.
If you wish to take a position against someone elses statement, be specific, choose one point, and stick to it.
In answer to 137:
I point out Matthew 18:6 which is the standard set by Jesus.
Taking one verse out of context that you found on the internet does not make a point.It is a distraction though.

I'm trying to hear what you're saying Scion, I don't believe "a majority of them" and not the fossil I was holding, 4000 years is not that long of a time for something to fossilize, most of the stuff you have was probably killed off from the Yucatan meteor event, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucatan_crater (65.5 million years ago, not 4000) I have some ancient pottery that is older than 4000 years, and it's still in it's clay form, the Chinese culture goes back at least 5000 years, and I don't see any fossilized human skeletons over there to back up your claims, but for the record, how old would you say the earth is, when did man show up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
This timeline puts the earth at 4600 million years old, oops Doh, see what all this jibberish will do to your mind?

I'm not in this to argue or even debate, i do enjoy the subject.
I believe the earth is about 6000 yrs old.
I believe both sides of the issue are at a standstill, because
at an ever increasing rate, theories proposed by both sides
keep getting disproven or revised.
I tried to use google to find current positions on theories
I'd learned in the past, and about all I find is heated debate well seasoned with contempt and frustration on both sides of the issue.
Apparently there is noone capable of discussing this from both sides without breaking down into contempt for the other's ignorance.
I would truly love this discussion with a passion if there were some way to have it structured and strictly followed rules of mutual respect.
I'd especially love if our forums could have a subsection for
certain discussions that did not show up on PSc front page.
I'd personally have a blast being involved in discusions that many on the site don't want in their faces everyday.
I'd more than likely become very active on Soozes thread
for example.

Thanks MM, I knew something was F'd up, I don't know WTF I was thinking...like I said, I needed to be corrected, now I can sit down, Scion? 6000 years old? Ask the Chinese what they were doing @ 6000 years ago, I don't think they were dealing with talking snakes in the trees about apples, but I respect the fact that you believe what others have told you, this is why the world is ready to pop, because some refuse to look at real physical evidence, and compare it to a story that's been bounced around for a short while. Maybe man does need a Bible, some kind of guideline to show us how we should treat each other, but it was not long ago that the very same people who wrote it, would have burned you at the stake, for suggesting the world was anything other than flat, and that the earth was the center of the universe.

How they kept the facts straight

What?......6000 years old? Now your gonna tell me that man was around when dinosaurs were here, of which is (of course)preposterous.