Many pscers have come across the idea that they were artists, and I think I read some discussions about it in the frums and in the chat.

I would like to take this discussion further right here.

It is accepted that a creator is an artist when the thing he creates is spontaneous, non commercial.
An artist is, by nature, in opposition with the society he lives not "in", but "with" : the gap between the society and the artist is exactly what defines art.The artist is an individual who accepts that the society's beauty and horror should be revealed through his art, who accepts to be a medium for that society.

By nature, an artist ceases to be an artist once he enters the commercial system, and once he follows the guidelines people give him.

This spontaneous creative effort is what defines art.
On a personal plan, I found out that being an artist meant to accept every kind of projection people make...like when people think they "see" things in your pictures.I personally was amazed at creating pics on that purpose, and having many quite negative critics related to their symbolism: paint a dot on a white page and people will say you're a genius or that you suck, meaning nothing that they see themselves as geniuses and/or suckers.Art is like those images used in psychology to make people talk.

So...as long as you accept people's freakiest projections, as long as you accept (of course) not to be paid for that, you're an artist.In history, only a couple artists were ever recognized by the society they lived in before they died.

As long as you are a designer who makes some money from orders, and make nice pictures on the side, don't even see yourself as an artist, you're not one.Bring your guts together and take the infamous artistic path if you like ;)

In french we have two different words :

an artist is what I described above.

an "artisan", "craftsman" in english, is a worker who uses his technical skills to create either usefull, or artistic objects for money.

I dont think there's only one real "artist" here at psc, but people who are or want to be craftsmen, hence this vocabulary related post.

what do you think ?


cheers

i have nothing to add.

Out of the drawer - release arts!

Well said.

VERY well said.

I use to be an artist, then I had to make a living! you are correct though, a real artist reflects the world external or internal, to document todays paradigm and genre.
self expression and creativity play a large part in the life of an artist too. can we really call ourselves graphic artists then is my question? what do you think is the proper term for somebody that makes their living doing logo's, web design, photo manipulation?

a "graphic craftsman" ? if I spelled correctly....?
or more simply an image technician, with different fields involved.....?

This is an interesting topic.

I do have one argument however. Michelangelo was and is considered an artist. But he did many commercial projects. I believe people can be artists, but also have some artisan qualities. I guess my point is, artists need to make rent somehow. I have to disagree and say there are artists on PSC, this is just a way to outlet thier artistic abilities.

I agree with your comment that an artist is an artist that can except criticism. However, the actual definition of art is…”the product of creative human activity in which materials are shaped or selected to convey an idea, emotion, or visually interesting form” (Encarta). The definition of an artist is a person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill and who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value. Most here at PSC fit those definitions. Additionally, all works of art have been sold, whether it is fine art, arts and crafts, or commercial art. Art is art and anyone that engages in an art form is an artist

Thats a good point, Michelangelo was commisioned to paint the sistine chapel. Does that make it not a work of art?

Very true he was commisioned to PAINT...but not enforced what to PAINT...so it is still his vission his concept...just some one wanted him to paint it on there roof

why not call it
"DIGITAL DECOUPAGE"

Are you sure? he may have not been told what they wanted... but it was a chapel, if he had painted something demonic, for example, he would have not gotten paid. So in a way he had certain perameters he had to follow.

Well, maybe I have more freedom in my job than a lot of people, but I think I do get to do a lot of personal expression in my adverts. I just got to do a piece with an Irish theme - I didn't pick the theme, but I sure as hell made it my own. Now I'm working on a 60s theme. Not high art, but it does have a degree of personal expression involved, even if it *is* advertising foodservice equipment.

but there is a great difference between what I create for work and what I create for myself. I think branding ourselves solely as craftspersons whittles us down to only our jobs without any acknowledgement of our non-paid work.

look at Leonardo's Virgin of the Rocks. He did it once, they didn't like it and made him do it again.

"Despite his low opinion of painting, Michelangelo also created two of the most influential fresco paintings in the history of Western art: the scenes from Genesis on the ceiling and The Last Judgement on the altar wall of the Sistine Chapel in Rome, In his lifetime he was also often called Il Divino ("the divine one"), an appropriate sobriquet given his intense spirituality and was favoured artist of all things spiritual."

This is an extract from a biography published of Michelangelo during his own lifetime.
So I think ot was a sure thing it was gunna be what they wanted.