I've seen a lot of snipy comments today about authenticity and I got wondering about what is important to the chop.

It being a visual medium, I'm thinking that thinks like "the ice would crack the pool" are non-issues, but sometimes perspectives are important and sometimes they aren't. On the one hand, reflections can be very important to whether a chop is genius or shite, but sometimes an ambiguous trick of light is a good thing. When do you allow the laws of physics to be broken in a chop... to me, that's half the purpose: to make things that cannot truly exist. If a rainbow is in the wrong place in the sky with regards to the sun, does that matter?

And please don't link to any open contests. I know this thread dances around the edges of that general rule, but I'm really just interested in philosophies on this one, not so much specific rebuttals. Thanks!!

Ask Julie. She knows what's important to the chop.

It depends on what you create. If you create a world where perspective is off all over and nothings stands out then it's ok, But if it's obvious that you were trying to do a realistic image, then it matters. If the fact that something is wrong is disturbing or takes away from the image, then it's wrong. If that "something wrong" adds a cool twist to the image or makes people laugh, then it's ok. If you are doing a Dali-esque image then it's your world but make sure that it is obvious what your intentions are. 99% of the time if it looks like a mistake, it's a mistake. The untrained eye may not catch it but you can be sure your not going to pass the test with everyone and if it were the real world, you would no get a good price for your art. As for the pool cracking, that's not really an issue. If you drew a picture of a book levitating, people would not say books don't float but they would bother you if the shadows were wrong. Cars don't blow up when you shoot them either, but your still going to like the movie. Jackie Chan can not beat up 120 people either but we believe he can for the movie. You will know if it is acceptable. There is an acceptable level of false realism. Most people know when they did something wrong. Usually if someone points something out and you get mad, it's not because they don't know what they are talking about. It's because they pointed out something that you know you should have noticed or you realized you still have a lot to learn and you think people will think less of you, so you get defensive. ( I don't mean you) "I wasn't done with it yet" is always a good one. Or "I created this world and you have never been there so you don't know if there are shadows in my world." If you meant to make it your own world, it would be obvious. If it looks like you made a mistake, most likely, you made a mistake. We all make them. I would not lose sleep over the pool cracking but perspective and basic drawing skills, shading , lighting etc. would make me correct it right away. If a few people say it's not a nice or well done image and you wanted it to be, then it's wrong. What a lot of people do is in a moment of embarrassment convince themselves that there was a reason why they did it wrong. "It fit more into the mood of the image I had in mind" Yeah....Right!! Listen to your self. Listen to what people say. Soak it in for a while, then decide for yourself weather they were right or not. Be honest with yourself. If you keep making the same mistakes and people keep pointing them out (many people) and you don't change anything, you might as well hang up your mouse and go home.

i think it can be a problem if you mix your styles. some chops try to be photorealistic, some try to be artistic, some try to be illustrative etc. if you start mixing these styles, it can look odd and may well result in lost votes

so if you attempt a photorealistic chop, but put the rainbow in the wrong place, then it's gonna detract from the chop (at least for me)

The image should make it clear what it's intentions were. If it's not obvious, then it will look like a mistake.

What ReyRey said.

P.S. I don't know what ReyRey said, but it looks long and thoughtful.

Just be Marco. It doesn't matter what you chop it still wins(or gets a shit load of votes)!!!

it was, volkaris... now you look pretty smart, too!

ReyRey said:


I have come to rely on the trained eyes here. I don't know if I'll live long enough to think of my eyes as "trained." I think they're better now than when I started a year ago, but that's not saying a lot. Granulated pointed out a contrast problem on one of my recent entries. When I first looked at it, it looked fine to me. When I thought about his explanation (overcast day) for a bit, I realized he was correct, so I changed the image. For a while it looked washed out or desaturated to me. Now it looks better. Looking back on some of the early images I did here that I was so proud of at the time, I realize there were many authenticity problems--especially with shadows. I have been learning how to make shadows by trial and error. Sometimes the results are good--authentic--and at other times the results suck.

I think the trained eye is an important point, but familiarity with the software and various techniques are key elements, too. My first few images were made using an eraser to cut elements out unfeathered; I didn't understand layers, so I saved elements as separate images then pasted everything together at the end. Needless to say, that made edits difficult. It also made for little authenticity.

If you want to figure out shadows, set up quick little models. If you have an image of two barrels lying in the sun light, set up two plastic cups and put a light bulb (clip on lights are great) where the sun would be. See what the shadows look like. Same deal with reflections. Set something up. Why guess? If you are figuring out your bills do you do it in your head or do you get a calculator. If your going to cut a board, do you measure it or just guess. When you do guess, Does the board ever fit right? No.

Listen to that man. I've used my bendy spotlight loads of times. I've stood lots of objects in front of it loads of times. I also have a mirror next to me for facial expressions.

I know claf has and I know Rey has and I think I have, but who else thinks they still have there artistic integrity?

isn't artistic integrity something you acquire, rather than something you lose?

(and what does it mean anyway??)

I am listening carefully, gentleman. Clip on spotlights.

chop one out for 'us