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Claf
Re: st1n3r: Thanks! I had no choice... I changed the title... it fits super well!!! Thanks! :)
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Claf
Yeah! A bit provocative! I like Wett & Patre comments & reactions. For this one, I'm curious about what you have to say! The idea is about atheism, something enough taboo...
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Claf
Re: TheShaman: Yeah! You got it!!! ... mmmm... are we really going to hell? ;)
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Patre
Hi Claf, My personal interpretation of this image(subject to much error, when it is matched with your intent),is that like the dinosaurs, religion is dead.The characterized religion here, seems to be Christianity. If the heart of most religions is love
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Patre
and compassion, here I include Christianity, then, in my view, the religion is dead theory loses its power. Tossing aside dogma and the other differences that separate people supporting a variety of religious beliefs, if the core of their belief is love,
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Patre
then religion is very much alive. And if one can accept that the person dying on the cross in some way is a manifestation of love for others, then this particular image's characterization of the death of religion may be off the mark.
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Patre
I believe that a lot may depend on how one defines religion, and I also recognize that there are many humanist atheists who are loving people and make a very positive and substantial contribution to the world's well-being. I struggle with this partic
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Patre
particular characterization because it may suggest to some that love is dead and gone, while in truth, love is the only thing there is after everything else is gone.
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TheShaman
nah Jesus has a sense of humor.... i think @.0 anyway, i love this ALOT!!!
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TheShaman
Pat, pass the ~~ my friend.
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Queen La Tiff
Crappy source pic, was it?!? I'm telling God and/or Bella you said that.
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Patre
Shaman, I share your view that Jesus or whoever God is might be laughing him/herself silly over this theme and its characterization. For what is, is I guess and no matter how we characterize it, it is what is. And how many of us KNOW what really is.
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Patre
No hell is a good thing!
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TheShaman
heavy pat, i feel stoned now @.0 j/k heavy though
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Patre
Hi Shaman, I just realized that the sentence "No hell is a good thing: could be interpreted in at least two ways. 1. No hell is a good thing- meaning, if there isn't any hell that is great. 2. meaning- it is indeed a good thing that there is a hell.
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Patre
My intent was the first stated meaning. I guess commas are important after all.
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Claf
Re: Patre: Thanks for your comments! I appreciate a lot! My visual didn't mean that religion is dead, but that religion can be modernised. I think that religion will always be a need. But I think that illogicality & contradiction is part of it.
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Patre
Claf, I, like you, believe that "Religions" need to abandon the dogma and tradition that corrupt and smother human love. In my view, loving people and providing for their needs is at the heart of what it means to be religious. A love etiquette
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Patre
that crossed local, regional and national boundaries would unite people that were formeryl separated by time, space and even religious belief. Maybe the process of human evolution will someday bring us to a point where the human race shares a
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Patre
universal commitment to caring for every member of the species that reconciles our deepest divisions and honors the dignity of every person and being on the planet.
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Claf
Re: Patre: Thanks again! When you say "love is the only thing...", it's absolutely true! And all the atheists that I know (mmm... most of them!) believe in that too! What I mean is that to believe in God or not makes no difference... I think! :)
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Patre
Hi Claf again..I enjoy this dialogue. In response to your latest comment, I would add that the irony will be, if in the very end what we now call "love" turns out to be God. Love is the only self-and other affirming state that I believe could have an
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Patre
infinite life because it is only affirming and giving and receiving. It has no self or other destructive tendencies. Thus it is more than probable and even highly possible that its life is eternal.
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crossgraphix
the only problem with your statement "to believe in God or not makes no difference..." is what if it does make a diffence then your screwed one day as for me i like to know things for sure but that is just my opinion
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Patre
My hunch is that if we live a life of love, caring for ourselves and others in the best way we know how, and if God can be truly defined as the summit of love, then we are connected to love/God and the reality becomes the belief.
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Patre
Even if person chose not to conclude to the existence of "God" for any number of reasons, the reality of the connection would be honored in his/her life, and I would see and respect the loving presence incarnate in that person's life.
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crossgraphix
Jesus is our only connection with God we must rely on him to experience the love of God it is like with out the hose you cant water the flowers so to speak
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Patre
Crossgraphix, I do share your view that Jesus is indeed a conduit of love who for many people is the answer to their life's search for meaning. But for many others the presence of love found in the many and diverse experiences of human existence
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Patre
both spiritual and otherwise is just as real and fulfilling. Infinite and eternal love, in my view, is everywhere. And I do my best to honor the power of its presence by acknowledging the grace of its existence in everyone and everything.
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Patre
In short, to use your metaphor, the hose can be successfully and faithfully used to water the flowers. But the rain, a sprinkling can and many other watering methods can also nuture the flowers and grow them into a garden of wonderful beauty and delight.
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ScionShade
Uhh, bic9000. The Old and New testaments both have donosaurs in them.
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ScionShade
donosaurs?
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Bic9000
You sure? I read it as God makes Earth in a week, then Adam & from him, Eve etc. (you can see why it sounds a little on the 'made up' side) Besides William Buckland is widely accepted as making the first dino discovery around 1820
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ScionShade
You don't know what your talking about.sorry. I'm not gonna debate an issue with someone who is obviously so ill-informed.
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Bic9000
(unless you count Reverend Plot, who found a massive femur bone back in the late 1600's which, as it was the first of its kind at the time, was believed to be from a giant human. Either way, the bible remains a not particularly believable work of fict
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Claf
Re: Patre: Thanks for all your comments! That's great! I think that "the very end" or "after everything else is gone" means maybe different thing for me. I tought it means just before dying. I believe there's nothing after death...
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Claf
... nothing infinite or eternal... nothing else than life by itself. I dont need to believe something greater than being alive. I'm not afraid of death and to know that there's nothing after... only bones like dinosaurs.
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Claf
Re: crossgraphix: Hi! I dont know if it's my bad English, but I dont really follow... I dont understand your first comment!? ...and you like to know things... like what? Your second comment sounds funny... maybe my funny English, again! :)
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Patre
Hi Claf-I am not aware of any scientific proof that would dispute your claim that human life as we know it ends at death. I am also not aware of any scientific proof that inconclusively supports the view that an existence beyond the grave
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Patre
is not possible. Therefore, relying strictly on my own personal experience and the logic that energy is not lost, but transformed and believing that a loving energy endures forever, I believe that there is a spiritual existence after death.
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Patre
The energy is much like the energy that opens our garage door when we push the button on the remote garage door opener. We don't see the electrical energy that moves the pulley, but nevertheless the garage door opens. In my view, love
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Patre
the energy of an eternal love is like that. We can't see, hear, smell or sense it through our bodily senses. But we are moved and inspired by it in this life. And in a spiritual existence, our awareness would be constituted by a consciousness of its
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Patre
presence in everything that is,was and will be. I can't prove it, but I am inspired by the possibility, and hope for its fulfillment. Wonderful dialogue! Thanks for creating the image that made it possible.
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Claf
Nice Patre! Very Interesting Dialogue! I can feel passion! Thanks again! Thanks a lot! :)
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Da_Dude
dinosaurs in the bible? oh yeah I think we had a psalm on it at biblestudies, it wuz something like this: "Open the door get on the floor everybody walk the dinosaur." I really enjoyed the rhythm.. but also the message to mankind to dance
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Da_Dude
..synchronously.
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nubie
never follow a preacher without deeds........ and a rotten leader doesn't spoil the congregation. Love is not your wealth until you give it away!!
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nubie
you can see him???
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Goat1981
Interesting theory on the afterlife, Patre. Never thought about it that way -- energy cannot be created or destroyed; one of the laws of conservation. I wonder if the end of life, however, is like the completion of a (very complex) chemical reaction...
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Patre
Could be,Goat. The question for me is- is there a hierarchy of energy that ranges from the very dense(earth matter) to the very ethereal (spiritual energy)? Earth matter would constitute the type of energy whose life span in human form consists
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Patre
of the chemical reactions you speak about. As chemicals react and break down, different forms are created. For example, after death our physical form eventually turns to "dust", Spiritual energy, on the other hand, vibrates at a much higher level
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Patre
has little or no density and is characterized by an awareness of space and time that is not inhibited by its attachment to the heavier,more dense earth matter. However, I must say, Kris, that this is all very speculative and far ahead of what the truth
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Patre
may really be. So I suspect now that most people rely on whatever insight, intuition, education and personal experience they have collected throughout life to form an opinion that affords them the most psycholgical comfort
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Patre
when they confront questions about death and the meaning of their(our)lives.
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sage
wow, claf...look what you've started! :D
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Patre
"inconclusively" above should read "conclusively supports the view"
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Claf
Re: sage: Yeah! Amazing! I never thought having more comments than votes one day! But what's the "most comments single entry record"? Maybe I need some help to beat it!?!? :)
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Claf
I'm sure somebody else has something to say...! Can be seriuos... can be funny... maybe something about "evolution vs creation"... it was part of the concept...... Anyway, already THANKS A LOT for your comments & votes! :-I :-) :-D
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Goat1981
Your theory is really interesting, Patre -- the different types of energy, etc -- something I never thought about and find very interesting. And I totally agree that most people form their own beliefs on how this life / afterlife will work based on their
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Goat1981
life experiences and upbringing. It's interesting to hear the opinion of someone older and more experienced in life. Very cool. :-) Thanks for the insight.
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Goat1981
There you go, Claf -- some more comments. I bet you wish these were votes, eh? :-p
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Claf
Re: Goat1981: Yeah! Thanks for your comments! Patre's theory is something really similar to what my wife's thinking. This is an interesting point of view. :)
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ScionShade
Claf, this shadow here, really hit the mark, an easy 80 plus vote image.I congratulate you on the skilled work. I beleive you have provocation and insensitivity mixed up. I'm not offended by this post. I am quite literally hurt by it.
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ScionShade
Making a statement that marginalizes the very thing that I set as the central point of my life for no apparent reason at all is just....mean.
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Goat1981
:-I
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Claf
Re: ScionShade: Thanks for your comment! I knew with this idea that I had no chance to win. Yes, I wanted to make this one provocative, knowing that it can be a delicate subject for someone and I'm not insensitive about it. If my image offended...
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Claf
... or hurted you or somebody else, I'm very sorry about it. But I think that religion is a subject that we can treat like another one. And I didn't try to marginalize any religions, but only trying to open a debate. My idea behind that was...
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Claf
... to treat about atheism. Still today very taboo, a lot of people think that it's abnormal or a problem. I'm from a Catholic family, and one day my parents had to accept very hardly my difference. I have a good friend who was repudiated...
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Claf
... by her family because she didn't believe in Jehovah. I didn't call it love, neither respect, no communication at all! Being atheist is not a choice, for me it was clear since I was a little boy. And nobody can change it. And it's not bette
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Claf
... and it's not better or worst... being atheist is only one of the "psychological comfort zone" that Patre talked about before. Maybe, I can dedicate this image only to who disagree with that...
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ScionShade
HA! I AGREE WITH ARCAICO! Gimme THAT STUPID VOTE BACK! HAHAHAHAHAHA!
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ScionShade
Jesus in a tree! you adopt Patre's not exactly well thought out yet strangely attractive and convincing theory without hestation and become a beleiver and follower yourself.
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ScionShade
See the connection here? You dislike those who have a belief and in essence who oppress your friends (like the girl who didn't believe in jehovah) and you make an artistic statement on it........ by turning around and doing the thing you hate.
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ScionShade
You don't want people of faith putting you down for your position, so then why would you put down people of faith for their posirion. I never did nothing to you.
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ScionShade
Go bust on those people who've done it to you. make them answer for it, don't just jump in my face.
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ScionShade
Now that your a person of faith yourself, in "The Church of Patre's Ramblings". You want me to make fun of you for it? Seriously- just cause some goofy jehovahs witnesses annoy you- don't take it out on me.
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Claf
Anyway... thanks! That's interesting too! Anyway, didn't want to bring so negative vibes! :(
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Feral Hamster
blah blah blah blah
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ScionShade
Well, It's seven months later and..well, this is still one of the best sets of shadows I've ever seen chopped. :-I Ya know, the legends of unicorns come from the bible too.
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Adam Collins
im glad i had a chance to see this and read the comments..avery very nice
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