It is very hard to have a conversation/argument with you.
I have already stated that I'm fine with user-submitted pictures. It's not how I would do it, but I'm okay with it. The issue is voting on the pictures that will be used.
OK I'm trying to wrap my head around your increasing participation theory... so your whole theory is based around the fact that we as choppers (who actually chop on a regular basis)... now get to vote on what we'd like to chop? So your theory people have left because the advantage members decide which pictures we see coming up? and because we're given cars, statues and buildings to vote ON... This is the only reason we went from 60-70 entries a day to less than 12 to start a competition?
Offering a reason for disagreement would be appreciated. I gave a reasons for my argument, but no one who disagrees has offered a reason for their disagreement.
I gave you a reason, you glossed over it.
I think most of the big choppers left for several reasons...
Major ones being not enough time to fully participate due to real life/work and
the big one... too much bitching/bickering all the effing time...
Well sure, some people are going to leave because they don't have the time, but that should be balanced by new people coming in, if not tipped in favor of newcomers.
Old people left, because Life and or Work has gotten in their way...
New people aren't flocking to our doors because the forums are filled with bitching and complaining about votes and about contests not being fair! and... we want more anon, we want less anon.and... the H2H sucks this round... and... are these guys cheating with multiple user names? and... I wish we had more prize contests... and I wish we had a separate contest just for gifs because they're not fair. wah wah wah.
Sorry, as a long time member, this is one of the reasons I left a while back. I needed a break from the constant whine. Not to mention several older members who do nothing to contribute but pine for the olden days. When I joined there were forms for chop the chopper, ask the guru (where you'd ask a photoshop related question) and someone with knowledge would answer you. Forums filled with lets take a photo walk and see what cool photos we can submit to PSC.
I contend the theory that we're not attracting new members because YOU keep seeing the same car or building because WE voted for it is invalid. Because a new member wouldn't have seen 20 cars yet. they see one car, and go.. a car. What can I chop it into... they don't go damn those advantage members for voting for another car...
I'm leaving... No its the general lack of friendliness around here. Before they even chop one photo, they see 15 topics of BITCHING and/or nothing actually to do with Photoshop. Forums filled with bitching instead of helping and OMG to dream... Tutorials! will attract the bees (new comers) Not piss and vinegar.
so back to my argument with your theory... Making it random and taking away the ability to vote wont change the fact that the photos are already approved... We need to take better photos for submission.
you come at me with this..
That's what PSC has been trying to do, and it's been failing. When people walk out their door and try to find something interesting, they're inevitably going to choose the same things that everybody else would choose when they walk out their door. Bridges, benches, street signs, cars, stuff like that.
I agree. and why I made the argument "take better photos".. be more aware of what you shoot.
If your solution to the problem is to double-down on it, then I'm afraid I can't say I agree with you.
AND moderators need to look at the pictures WE submit and thus deny the photos of a side angle of a car, or the front of a house etc... IF they've seen them a bunch of times before they make it to voting queue. Or the random generator (which is where it goes once approved by us or approved just by PSC).
fine if you don't agree, but in a sense it is the solution to YOUR problem. WE need to take better photos. PSC doesn't have a magical free stock site to take photos from, or a guy who's gonna bring us 365 days of sources. It never has, it never will. PSC has always, and will always rely on PSC members for source material.
Just because WE vote on them now, doesn't change the fact that WE take the photos. It won't solve your lack of participation if you take away our power to vote. It just takes out one filter for approving photos to chop. I contend take away our power to say no, will actually increase the number of buildings, cars and statues you see. Because as long as the mods are approving source photos... and as long as they're only going by size and quality of photos as an approval.. you'll keep seeing the same sources. Instead of giving us the extra say of... no, i'm not voting for that again even if it is a quality photo...
Rather, PSC would just randomly post ALL the pictures that we've submitted and they've approved.
Thus... Nothing changes.
It would change. It would change from being user-voted to random. That's a change. Having an admin available to review the images and say "we've had too many cars recently" would help.
You've forgotten the fact that pictures are already APPROVED by mods, So yes, they do need to be more judicious. (I've already said this a few times) BUT even if you take away OUR power to vote on these images, ALL the images already approved will go in the random generator and thus we will still see ALL the photos of cars, buildings, statues etc. BECAUSE we as choppers submitted said photos. THUS NOTHING CHANGES! Just our ability to say, we don't like this photo and it never actually gets farther than the voting que. BECAUSE no one voted it in. So just because it was approved.. being the proper height and size... doesn't mean it gets to ride the ride.
I've seen it happen other places as well. I gave my examples, but as of yet no one has cared to address any of them. Tell me why you think I'm confused. Tell me what I've gotten wrong about how this place works.
This place goes in cycles... Yeah, there aren't 50 entries each and every day... but those days are gone, I doubt anything will ever bring back that type of competition again... not saying PSC shouldn't strive for it... just saying LIFE gets in the way... bitching about it, isn't going to bring it back... participating and submitting good quality/imaginative entries in the contests, will force other people to up their game as well... Thus bringing the level of competition UP, thus bringing in more people... more competition... a vicious cycle in the right direction...
Again, the "well if more people would chop, more people would come!" argument is invalid. If it made any sense, we'd have never seen the drop off to begin with. Life didn't "get in the way" for everybody all at once.
invalid argument? IF more quality
entries were submitted in the daily contests, more people would be prone to upping their game. thus upping the quality of entries, and the quality of contests... thus more people would be attracted to join and compete. Sure as hell makes me want to compete harder when I see the likes of Bogonet, supak0ma, anfa, Claf etc compete. When I see nothing special to begin with... It hardly makes me want to try harder. Very valid argument IMPO.
It will be impossible to take back control because people are attached to the idea that choice must always be a good thing. I have shown why it is not, and the utter lack of a coherent responses is just making me bitter towards the members of the site.
the only lack of coherent response is you. You're like a robot. people give you other answers to the problems at PSC. LIFE, OWNERS WHO DONT CARE, ALIASES, ETC. but you keep harping on ONE factor to a multi-headed problem. Our ability to vote on already approved images. You're arguing that THIS is the reason for lack of participation, when in reality... yes, it contributes to the problem... BUT its not the MAIN problem. The MAIN problem is many things snowballing into a LARGER problem.
I didn't make this thread to be liked. I knew it would put people into a defensive position to protect their precious ability to vote on images. I want my arguments to be judged on their merits.
We're in a defensive position because every time we argue the fact that you don't see the whole picture, you tell us we're stupid... I could care less if they take my ability away to vote for source images. BUT again. IF they do this... that just means that the mods who approve the photos will throw EVERY good photo into the random generator and we'll still see the same pictures over and over. What needs to change is the end user... IE myself, and anyone else who SUBMITS source photos to be more diligent about what we shoot and submit for use. Can't blame the few who vote on already approved images for que. All the vote does is say, yes... we like this photo... but that one... not so much.
We're not here to judge your arguments. An argument isn't made to be judged.. its made to be argued. People have been arguing with you about the STATE of PSC since page one. You're just too hung up on your points to see that. Now.. I've given you reasons why I think your points are valid and invalid. AGAIN.