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Photoshop Contest Forum Index - Brain Storm - How to increase participation - Reply to topic

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PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:29 am   Reply with quote         


annajon wrote:
So.................................

To recap.....................

Create a forum called Brain Storm, submit a text called "HOW TO INCREASE PATICIPATION" with bunch of links to images that span a few years and...................

Get 6 pages of written text, that say 85 times the same over and over again.


Now, explain to me how that is different from entering in a competition. Did all the writers in this forum participate in the competitions over the past couple of weeks, more then one time?

Last I saw it was still called Photoshop Contest, not WORD

Was this supposed to make sense? The subject is lack of participation and you're surprised that I don't participate very often? Are you hearing yourself? Are you trying to say that it's hypocritical to spend this much time typing about the lack of participation when I could be participating? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying, which is borderline retarded since my explanation was not for a lack of time.

To recap................

Butt into a conversation called "How to increase participation" expecting active participants, open mouth, drool on shirt, shit pants.




Eve
Site Moderator

Location: Planet Earth

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:50 am   Reply with quote         


I can't believe I've participated in this thread. Rolling Eyes




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PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:51 am   Reply with quote         


Zoeon wrote:
I think sources has nothing to do with your point.
Why dont you just ask for example:

etc etc etc
why they dont participate anymore, then you have your answer on this question.

Is it possible for people to lose interest in something without understanding exactly why? Is it possible for them to, if pressed for an answer, give a response that doesn't describe the actual reason why they left. For example, they might say "Well, I had a lot of stuff going on in my life" when in reality they've always has a lot of stuff going on in their life, but now that this site is less interesting, they now view their lives as more important and interesting than before by comparison?

But again, someone telling me they disagree without actually explaining why. That seems to be a common theme around here.

What about my analysis didn't make sense to you? Was it the video game comparison? I know a lot of people don't play video games so maybe that was lost on you. Tell me, I'd like to know.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:54 am   Reply with quote         


Eve wrote:
I can't believe I've participated in this thread. Rolling Eyes

Would you happen to know when PSC began allowing members to choose contest images?




Werdnaibor

Location: Albany, NY

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:59 am   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
Zoeon wrote:
I think sources has nothing to do with your point.
Why dont you just ask for example:

etc etc etc
why they dont participate anymore, then you have your answer on this question.

Is it possible for people to lose interest in something without understanding exactly why? Is it possible for them to, if pressed for an answer, give a response that doesn't describe the actual reason why they left. For example, they might say "Well, I had a lot of stuff going on in my life" when in reality they've always has a lot of stuff going on in their life, but now that this site is less interesting, they now view their lives as more important and interesting than before by comparison?

But again, someone telling me they disagree without actually explaining why. That seems to be a common theme around here.

What about my analysis didn't make sense to you? Was it the video game comparison? I know a lot of people don't play video games so maybe that was lost on you. Tell me, I'd like to know.

The video game comparison isn't great. That's a very limited selection, and I don't feel the same frustration I do from playing repeated maps here. One hole in your theory is that some of those images were submitted by the inactive, good choppers. Vokaris submitted multiple signs. He still didn't chop for those contests. There must be other reasons. I find it odd that you made excuses for answers you didn't receive to questions you didn't ask.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:26 am   Reply with quote         


Werdnaibor wrote:
PotHed wrote:
Zoeon wrote:
I think sources has nothing to do with your point.
Why dont you just ask for example:

etc etc etc
why they dont participate anymore, then you have your answer on this question.

Is it possible for people to lose interest in something without understanding exactly why? Is it possible for them to, if pressed for an answer, give a response that doesn't describe the actual reason why they left. For example, they might say "Well, I had a lot of stuff going on in my life" when in reality they've always has a lot of stuff going on in their life, but now that this site is less interesting, they now view their lives as more important and interesting than before by comparison?

But again, someone telling me they disagree without actually explaining why. That seems to be a common theme around here.

What about my analysis didn't make sense to you? Was it the video game comparison? I know a lot of people don't play video games so maybe that was lost on you. Tell me, I'd like to know.

The video game comparison isn't great. That's a very limited selection, and I don't feel the same frustration I do from playing repeated maps here. One hole in your theory is that some of those images were submitted by the inactive, good choppers. Vokaris submitted multiple signs. He still didn't chop for those contests. There must be other reasons. I find it odd that you made excuses for answers you didn't receive to questions you didn't ask.

Do I have to type "Does this make sense?" after every paragraph? I wasn't looking for answers to questions I didn't ask; I was looking for explanations for disagreements. In that respect, I did ask. Several times. And so far, you are the very first person to actually express the reasons for your disagreement. Does that make sense?

Anyway....

My video game selection is limited to what I have played, but I played those games a lot and so I've had a large sample of gamers to listen to. The difference between the complaints about an unpopular map coming up in Call of Duty and the same map coming up over and over again in Max Payne is night and day. I don't know anybody that's stopped playing Call of Duty just because a map they don't like comes up every once and a while. On the other hand, I know a couple people who have quit playing Max Payne and I have seen a lot of people back out of games, and I have read a lot of complaints online about playing the same maps over and over again. Maybe there are some games out there that allow a purely democratic map selection that doesn't turn people off, but I haven't played them. Does that make sense?

On your second point, could it be that they don't even find their own contributions very interesting? I mean for chopping purposes. You mentioned Vokaris submitting a picture of a sign, which to me is the epitome of boring source imagery. I don't know if that blows a hole in my theory, but it does go against my assumption that the people choosing the images are having a better time. If my argument is correct, but that assumption was wrong, then that makes it even worse. Also, the theory isn't so much about submitting images as it is about voting on images. Does that make sense?

I don't know if you watch TEDtalks, but there was a really good one about choice and how having more choices can sometimes be a bad thing. One of the examples was a business that offered 3 basic retirement plans, and about 80% of the employees participated. In an effort to get more employees to get on board, they offered more options. They increased their plans from 3 to 10. What ended up happening was far fewer employees participated even though they had more choices and the original 3 were still there. The stress of choosing the right one caused many people to procrastinate indefinitely. Does that make sense?

That's not directly analogous to voting on pictures, but I want to put it out there to give another example of choice being a bad thing. Common sense would tell us that it can never be a bad thing to have more choices, to have more freedom, but sometimes it's just not the case. Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of people here are going to be put off and resist the idea that it would be better to have the images selected randomly (or some semblance thereof), to have their right to choose taken away. Likewise, the employees in the company would probably throw a fit if they were changing from 10 plans to 3 even though objectively the results would be superior. Does that make sense?




Zoeon

Location: Belgium

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:02 am   Reply with quote         


the answer is out there. also i blame the economic situation since 2009 worldwide has a big impact on this site too. people are more under pressure at work at home etc.
Some people ask for more quality here or more people join in to chop. the annonimus contests didnt help , the 50 dollar contests didnt help.
coming back to your point, i dont think its the everydays source thats the problem.

I think most people just lost interest, getting older, getting kids, loosing there jobs etc etc. and the site lost his quality choppers slowly and wasnt atractive anymore to new people with skills or trying to learn here.
Lucky some new people came in. with skills and i thought: YES those people can lift this site back to a higher level, but slowly they stoped shopping too.

Soo again ask those people who where 3 years ago active here, some daily, why they stopped chopping here and maybe you will find an answer.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:37 am   Reply with quote         


Zoeon wrote:
the answer is out there. also i blame the economic situation since 2009 worldwide has a big impact on this site too. people are more under pressure at work at home etc.
Some people ask for more quality here or more people join in to chop. the annonimus contests didnt help , the 50 dollar contests didnt help.
coming back to your point, i dont think its the everydays source thats the problem.

I think most people just lost interest, getting older, getting kids, loosing there jobs etc etc. and the site lost his quality choppers slowly and wasnt atractive anymore to new people with skills or trying to learn here.
Lucky some new people came in. with skills and i thought: YES those people can lift this site back to a higher level, but slowly they stoped shopping too.

Soo again ask those people who where 3 years ago active here, some daily, why they stopped chopping here and maybe you will find an answer.

Edited: Forget it. It's like talking to a brick wall.




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:42 am   Reply with quote         


annajon wrote:

Create a forum called Brain Storm, submit a text called "HOW TO INCREASE PATICIPATION" with bunch of links to images that span a few years and...................

I didn't even span one full year. I did 5 months at most. This is why I'm an asshole. Because I'm surrounded by idiots.




Zoeon

Location: Belgium

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:09 am   Reply with quote         


PotHed wrote:
annajon wrote:

Create a forum called Brain Storm, submit a text called "HOW TO INCREASE PATICIPATION" with bunch of links to images that span a few years and...................

I didn't even span one full year. I did 5 months at most. This is why I'm an asshole. Because I'm surrounded by idiots.
now you are getting naughty and brutal too.
now sit down relax take a deep breath and enjoy live. Very Happy or i let the dogs out Laughing




Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:45 am   Reply with quote         


Idea




PotHed

Location: San Antonio, Tx

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:14 am   Reply with quote         


Zoeon wrote:
PotHed wrote:
annajon wrote:

Create a forum called Brain Storm, submit a text called "HOW TO INCREASE PATICIPATION" with bunch of links to images that span a few years and...................

I didn't even span one full year. I did 5 months at most. This is why I'm an asshole. Because I'm surrounded by idiots.
now you are getting nauthy and brutal too.
now sit down relax take a deep breath and enjoy live. Very Happy or i let the dogs out Laughing

Well it sure isn't because I'm surrounded by geniuses, I'll tell you that much. I present an idea and what do I get? Misrepresentations of my words, people saying I'm just bitching, people disagreeing but not telling me why... But I guess I shouldn't have been so disrespectful, insulting, naughty and brutal.

Thank you, everybody. I must have been mistaken. You've all been so generous with your kind words and polite dialogue. I was wrong to ever doubt you.

It must be the case that people are leaving because people are leaving.
It must be the case that people are leaving because the economy crashed 3 years ago.
It must be the case that people are leaving because they simultaneously decided to get a life.

It can't possibly be that PSC tried to fix something that wasn't broken.

No, that could never happen.




seamusoisin

Location: Ottawa Strong!

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:52 am   Reply with quote         


This fixing the site thread is just as repetitive as repetitive images with the possible exception of our beloved Reinman's stove.

As for the Pothead, if you want to change the site buy it and implement whatever changes you think are correct.




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TheShaman

Location: Peaksville, Southeast of Disorder

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:56 am   Reply with quote         


It is very hard to have a conversation/argument with you.

PotHed wrote:
I have already stated that I'm fine with user-submitted pictures. It's not how I would do it, but I'm okay with it. The issue is voting on the pictures that will be used.


OK I'm trying to wrap my head around your increasing participation theory... so your whole theory is based around the fact that we as choppers (who actually chop on a regular basis)... now get to vote on what we'd like to chop? So your theory people have left because the advantage members decide which pictures we see coming up? and because we're given cars, statues and buildings to vote ON... This is the only reason we went from 60-70 entries a day to less than 12 to start a competition?

PotHed wrote:

Offering a reason for disagreement would be appreciated. I gave a reasons for my argument, but no one who disagrees has offered a reason for their disagreement.


I gave you a reason, you glossed over it.
Quote:
I think most of the big choppers left for several reasons...
Major ones being not enough time to fully participate due to real life/work and
the big one... too much bitching/bickering all the effing time...

PotHed wrote:
Well sure, some people are going to leave because they don't have the time, but that should be balanced by new people coming in, if not tipped in favor of newcomers.

Old people left, because Life and or Work has gotten in their way...
New people aren't flocking to our doors because the forums are filled with bitching and complaining about votes and about contests not being fair! and... we want more anon, we want less anon.and... the H2H sucks this round... and... are these guys cheating with multiple user names? and... I wish we had more prize contests... and I wish we had a separate contest just for gifs because they're not fair. wah wah wah.

Sorry, as a long time member, this is one of the reasons I left a while back. I needed a break from the constant whine. Not to mention several older members who do nothing to contribute but pine for the olden days. When I joined there were forms for chop the chopper, ask the guru (where you'd ask a photoshop related question) and someone with knowledge would answer you. Forums filled with lets take a photo walk and see what cool photos we can submit to PSC.

I contend the theory that we're not attracting new members because YOU keep seeing the same car or building because WE voted for it is invalid. Because a new member wouldn't have seen 20 cars yet. they see one car, and go.. a car. What can I chop it into... they don't go damn those advantage members for voting for another car... Rolling Eyes I'm leaving... No its the general lack of friendliness around here. Before they even chop one photo, they see 15 topics of BITCHING and/or nothing actually to do with Photoshop. Forums filled with bitching instead of helping and OMG to dream... Tutorials! will attract the bees (new comers) Not piss and vinegar.

so back to my argument with your theory... Making it random and taking away the ability to vote wont change the fact that the photos are already approved... We need to take better photos for submission.

you come at me with this..
PotHed wrote:
That's what PSC has been trying to do, and it's been failing. When people walk out their door and try to find something interesting, they're inevitably going to choose the same things that everybody else would choose when they walk out their door. Bridges, benches, street signs, cars, stuff like that.

If your solution to the problem is to double-down on it, then I'm afraid I can't say I agree with you.

I agree. and why I made the argument "take better photos".. be more aware of what you shoot.
AND moderators need to look at the pictures WE submit and thus deny the photos of a side angle of a car, or the front of a house etc... IF they've seen them a bunch of times before they make it to voting queue. Or the random generator (which is where it goes once approved by us or approved just by PSC).


fine if you don't agree, but in a sense it is the solution to YOUR problem. WE need to take better photos. PSC doesn't have a magical free stock site to take photos from, or a guy who's gonna bring us 365 days of sources. It never has, it never will. PSC has always, and will always rely on PSC members for source material.

Just because WE vote on them now, doesn't change the fact that WE take the photos. It won't solve your lack of participation if you take away our power to vote. It just takes out one filter for approving photos to chop. I contend take away our power to say no, will actually increase the number of buildings, cars and statues you see. Because as long as the mods are approving source photos... and as long as they're only going by size and quality of photos as an approval.. you'll keep seeing the same sources. Instead of giving us the extra say of... no, i'm not voting for that again even if it is a quality photo...

Quote:
Rather, PSC would just randomly post ALL the pictures that we've submitted and they've approved.
Thus... Nothing changes.


PotHed wrote:
It would change. It would change from being user-voted to random. That's a change. Having an admin available to review the images and say "we've had too many cars recently" would help.

You've forgotten the fact that pictures are already APPROVED by mods, So yes, they do need to be more judicious. (I've already said this a few times) BUT even if you take away OUR power to vote on these images, ALL the images already approved will go in the random generator and thus we will still see ALL the photos of cars, buildings, statues etc. BECAUSE we as choppers submitted said photos. THUS NOTHING CHANGES! Just our ability to say, we don't like this photo and it never actually gets farther than the voting que. BECAUSE no one voted it in. So just because it was approved.. being the proper height and size... doesn't mean it gets to ride the ride.

PotHed wrote:
I've seen it happen other places as well. I gave my examples, but as of yet no one has cared to address any of them. Tell me why you think I'm confused. Tell me what I've gotten wrong about how this place works.


Quote:
This place goes in cycles... Yeah, there aren't 50 entries each and every day... but those days are gone, I doubt anything will ever bring back that type of competition again... not saying PSC shouldn't strive for it... just saying LIFE gets in the way... bitching about it, isn't going to bring it back... participating and submitting good quality/imaginative entries in the contests, will force other people to up their game as well... Thus bringing the level of competition UP, thus bringing in more people... more competition... a vicious cycle in the right direction...



PotHed wrote:
Again, the "well if more people would chop, more people would come!" argument is invalid. If it made any sense, we'd have never seen the drop off to begin with. Life didn't "get in the way" for everybody all at once.


invalid argument? IF more quality entries were submitted in the daily contests, more people would be prone to upping their game. thus upping the quality of entries, and the quality of contests... thus more people would be attracted to join and compete. Sure as hell makes me want to compete harder when I see the likes of Bogonet, supak0ma, anfa, Claf etc compete. When I see nothing special to begin with... It hardly makes me want to try harder. Very valid argument IMPO.

PotHed wrote:
It will be impossible to take back control because people are attached to the idea that choice must always be a good thing. I have shown why it is not, and the utter lack of a coherent responses is just making me bitter towards the members of the site.


the only lack of coherent response is you. You're like a robot. people give you other answers to the problems at PSC. LIFE, OWNERS WHO DONT CARE, ALIASES, ETC. but you keep harping on ONE factor to a multi-headed problem. Our ability to vote on already approved images. You're arguing that THIS is the reason for lack of participation, when in reality... yes, it contributes to the problem... BUT its not the MAIN problem. The MAIN problem is many things snowballing into a LARGER problem.

PotHed wrote:
I didn't make this thread to be liked. I knew it would put people into a defensive position to protect their precious ability to vote on images. I want my arguments to be judged on their merits.

We're in a defensive position because every time we argue the fact that you don't see the whole picture, you tell us we're stupid... I could care less if they take my ability away to vote for source images. BUT again. IF they do this... that just means that the mods who approve the photos will throw EVERY good photo into the random generator and we'll still see the same pictures over and over. What needs to change is the end user... IE myself, and anyone else who SUBMITS source photos to be more diligent about what we shoot and submit for use. Can't blame the few who vote on already approved images for que. All the vote does is say, yes... we like this photo... but that one... not so much.

We're not here to judge your arguments. An argument isn't made to be judged.. its made to be argued. People have been arguing with you about the STATE of PSC since page one. You're just too hung up on your points to see that. Now.. I've given you reasons why I think your points are valid and invalid. AGAIN.




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rockyjob

Location: Anywhere but where I am.

Post Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:23 am   Reply with quote         


If only we had an owner that actually gave a damn about this site and didn't just see it as a buisiness opportunity... Everything went downhill since Proc.




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